New Tire Questions

[robots4joey]

Hey Everyone!

it's coming about time to buy new tires for my 1998 Civic EX (5-speed), and I am debating what to buy.

I was leaning toward the LRR tires, but they are often double the cost of cheap walmart tires... so I was curious if they really can add that much to cost savings that they really pay off.

second question: tire size. I know this topic has been touched on many times, often times people do not just get taller tires with the same width, they get wider and taller tires...

The stock tires for my civic are 185/65R14's

I can get 185/75R14's for the same price at Walmart (in the ultra cheap brand) these tires have the same width (CD concerns) but are taller giving a circumference that is 6.2% longer, which I am hoping would help with highway RPM's (mine are real high- Over 3200 RPM at 75mph)

What do you advise on taller tires and fuel economy improvement?
and also- should I break down and buy the LRR tires?

Thanks everyone!!! I really appreciate the advice!

[Daox]

Looking on tirerack the cheapest LRR in the 185-65R14 is $59. The cheapest tire period is $56. Are you saying you can get tires from walmart for $30?

Personally, I think LRR is worth it. I just picked up a set of those $59 tires for my Paseo actually (but in a different size).

As for the tire diameter, I personally don't like to throw off the speedometer.

[Blackbomber]

I would think dropping your cruising speed from 75 to 65 would do more than anything you could bolt on to the car, but you already knew that, he he.

One think I'm curious about is the service life of one tire versus another. I have walmart cheapies (Uniroyal Tiger Paw touring), and have 80k on them, with seemingly plenty of tread left (although they are getting hard, and are a bit sketchy in the rain). I will be facing the tire purchase soon, and wonder if anyone can has had the new breed of LRR tires long enough to comment on longevity?

[Daox]

You'll really just need to compare your tire tread rating to the tire tread rating of the LRR you're looking at. I'm sure there are probably long life and short life LRRs out there. Understand the rating practice differs between manufacturers, so you can't compare tires of different makers.

[tumnasgt]

Originally Posted by Winfield1990

#3 , LRR arent they noisier tires also?

I would expect LRR tires to be quieter, as there is less rolling resistance, though this is just my first thought on it, not a scientific statement.

Weight will make a difference if you are driving in the city, but on the highway rolling resistance is a lot more important for FE than weight. In the city, I'm not sure which would be more important, as rolling resistance can make up a very large proportion of the drag on a car at lower speeds.

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by Winfield1990

........#2 , I would worry more about tire weight for unsprung weight than LRR , if your really interested in MPG , there is alot more slip from having LRR and less traction while accelerating , and you have to slow down more on turns , and your breaking and performance are sacraficed that way leading to inefficiencies there. MAy or may not be a good trade off depending on where you live of course. Biggest question is what speeds do you normally coast through turns?....

This does not make sense. While weight reduction results in lower roling resistance, tread compound plays a HUGE role in RR - and RR, Treadwear, and Traction are tradeoffs - which is what is being alluded to here.

So weight by itself has little bearing on traction - other than the fact that as tire wear, they lose both traction and weight and the result is better fuel economy - but every tire does that.

Originally Posted by Winfield1990

.......#3 , LRR arent they noisier tires also? .....

No, while noise generation also generates heat, it is such a small effect, you can pretty much discount any connection.

Besides, the new ECE regulations will have RR, Noise, and wet traction as regulated items for tires. If anything, the new generation of LRR tires will also be less noisy to meet these regulations.

Originally Posted by Winfield1990

.......if the price is roughly the same go with the skinnier and or shorter tire that fits on your wheel. Aerodynamic drag and weight of the tires , I think are going to be more important 80% of the time than being low rolling resistance.......

Sorry, but wider and taller result in better RR. I cover that here:

Barry's Tire Tech

- AND - Aerodrag of tires is such a small portion of the overall drag of the vehicle that changes in RR due to it being wider are over-whelmed by the improvement in RR.

Originally Posted by Winfield1990

.......Lighter tires give less road noise .......

Sorry, not true.

Originally Posted by Winfield1990

.......and a more comfortable ride also.

That is true, but you will also get a more comfortable ride by going larger (wider and taller).

[tumnasgt]

Originally Posted by Winfield1990

........#2 , I would worry more about tire weight for unsprung weight than LRR , if your really interested in MPG , there is alot more slip from having LRR and less traction while accelerating , and you have to slow down more on turns , and your breaking and performance are sacraficed that way leading to inefficiencies there. MAy or may not be a good trade off depending on where you live of course. Biggest question is what speeds do you normally coast through turns?....

If you're getting wheel spin, you're accelerating too hard. I don't think many ecomodders are driving so hard that wheel spin is a regular occurrence.

Likewise for braking, it will only affect emergency braking, as one of the main ideas behind hypermiling is driving without brakes as much as possible, so hard braking will likely be a rare occurrence.

And for turning corners, there is little reason that LRR can't turn as well as standard tires, as they reduce front-back rolling friction, not side-to-side. I know that some LRRs are not as good as some normal tires, but there are also plenty of standard tires with sub-par turning capabilities.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Winfield1990

I would worry more about tire weight for unsprung weight than LRR

Unsprung weight certainly is an issue.

there is alot more slip from having LRR and less traction while accelerating

Then you're giving it too much throttle, or the tyres are shot.

Even my lowly 109HP FWD car would spin its rather sporty Continental Sportcontact 3 tyres when I was too enthusiastic with throttle and clutch.
Surely it can spin its LRR too ...

and you have to slow down more on turns,

While hypermiling, one is often already going slower.
Of course the LRR tyres don't corner as well as a sportstyre, but the newer / better ones are perfectly driveable.

I often have other cars right up my tail on the exit ramp from the highway as I coast to bleed off speed. They tend to quickly fall behind once we get into the bends off the exit ramp - often a 90° to 180° turn - as I generally don't brake to turn in, while they do.

and your breaking and performance are sacraficed

Hypermiling means you're not exactly going for performance, so that doesn't really matter.

Braking with a good LRR tyre is OK, though obviously not as good as a sportstyre, and it really isn't expected to be as good anyway.

You can't expect sportstyre handling and braking from a LRR tyre - nor from a regular run-of-the-mill tyre either. But you pay for the better handling & braking as you wear them down a lot faster and use more fuel doing so.

Biggest question is what speeds do you normally coast through turns?....

"Normal" speed is irrelevant as you need to consider all aspects of every different turn.

In order to keep up the momentum, I tend to go faster through turns on LRR tyres than many people on whatever they are driving.
That includes the local Johnnys and cars with twice or more the HP.

[robots4joey]

hmmm..... so I am definitely interested in going LRR... Since my civic has 14" rims, that greatly limits the choices I have here...

Since I was thinking of increasing tire diameter anyway- would it be smart to try to trade my rims for a 15" set? then I would have a better range of tires to pick from... or should I go mail order tires to get the right LRR ones in the 14" rim size?

I really like the convenience of the $10 road hazard warranty at wal-mart... I can get their vista-whatever's (LRR) but only in 15" or bigger rim size...

if you do buy tires online- how do you change them? do you take them to a tire store to set the beads?

Sorry for asking all the questions at once! Thanks for the help though!!!

-Joe

[some_other_dave]

There are a number of LRR tires for 14" rims. The OEM Insight (1st-gen), for one.

If you get tires mail-order, you take them and your car (or just your wheels) to a shop and they swap the new tires onto the rims. It will cost anywhere from $5-25 per wheel.

-soD