New water heater heats for 1/10th of the cost.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Ryland

That is one of the big issues I have with rental houses that I see, the design and repair of them is done so that they are cheap to build but not cheap to live in, if a builder had incentive to make the houses that they build more efficient then everyone would be better off, one way tho is with rental property, if the property owner makes the place as efficient as possible then they can include the utility costs, that money that would have otherwise been wasted on poor design is now in the pocket of the property owner, with the renter happy because they don't get surprised with heating bills, the owner gets paid back for making good choices and less energy is wasted over all.

The reason most property owners do not invest in high efficiency is that it isn't profitable. I would never pay utilities for my rentals, especially since I rent to the lowest income people. They tend to be the most self-centered and make the poorest decisions about everything (including conservation of resources). They would crank the heat up and leave the doors open all winter for sure.

One of my AC units appears to be from the 50's, and I have no incentive to replace it until it dies. If there were a gov't program that made high efficiency units cost the same as cheapo ones, I would get it. However, I generally think the gov't should not create artificial markets.

If I had a very nice property that I rented to intelligent middle-class people, then I would consider HE as a selling point. Renters need to have the mental ability to understand that they will save money by renting an HE unit before they are willing to pay slightly more to live there. You might also find people willing to pay more just to live "greener", but most are more concerned with keeping their pockets greener.

I have roommates in my own home and include utilities in the rent for simplicity. Even if we split utilities, I don't think there would be much incentive to conserve since any individual's use is split between everyone else. For this reason, I have installed low flow faucets, shower heads, and toilets. Lighting is mostly CFL and LED, and will be installing automatic light switches in hallways that turn on with motion and turn off after a period of time. I'll also put vent fans on a timer since these also tend to be left on.

[blindsquirrel]

I have a pretty new 80 gallon electric water heater in the basement. The tag says $410 a year to run it. I wrapped that puppy in R30 fiberglass blankets this weekend and I hope to see a drop in electric costs. When it dies, tankless will replace it.

[order99]

I expect you'll see a noticable savings on your next bill. I wrapped mine in two layers of R25 reflective several months ago and noticed a huge difference-i'd have added more but my water heater is in an enclosed space and I ran out of room...BTW, wrap as much of your pipes as you can get to as well, every bit helps.

[joyee]

Fantastic man this is the awesome technology and i really appreciate to you for having such a nice post

[ron]

Never Pay for a rentals utilities, If it can be paid for by the renters, Great! I say. this is ecomodder yes. convert everything over rent your space for what the market will bare and keep your profit in your pocket (if any)now thats eco

[Pawtuckett]

...or you could put a cap on the amount you'll pay for utilities. That way, you could add that bonus in for the renters while covering your backside with regards to excess use.

I can't stand all the ignorant comments about low-income people and families in this post. Do you think low-income people and families drive H3s or build 10,000 sq. ft. McMansions? Conserving energy isn't rocket science, and I feel like the EnergyStar program has helped educate a lot of people on the monetary benefits of buying certified EnergyStar appliances and devices. Even folks that fall into the low-income category.

[ron]

I have been renting out a home for 32 years and have found it best to have the renters names on the utilities. for obvious reasons , My rents are reasonable for the area,800. for a 1bd rm. Yes some who have rented from me are lower income but low income does not mean low lives. one woman stayed for 15 years at 625.mo ten years ago. total redo when she left us. now its 800.mo. another lady and she is working on 4 years. ps mortgage is 998. mo. Ill hopefully make some $ when I retire and sell it.

[FastTrack]

Originally Posted by blindsquirrel

I have a pretty new 80 gallon electric water heater in the basement. The tag says $410 a year to run it. I wrapped that puppy in R30 fiberglass blankets this weekend and I hope to see a drop in electric costs. When it dies, tankless will replace it.

Is tankless really the way to go if you live in an area with very cold water in the winter?

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by FastTrack

Is tankless really the way to go if you live in an area with very cold water in the winter?

I've talked to enough people who have trouble with their tank-less water heaters that I'd have to say no, but tank-less water heaters tend to have a temp rise rating, that is of course under ideal conditions.
What is common around here is to have a tempering tank, a water heater tank that is set to a very low temp, like 80F to bring the water up to room temp or just above, the heat loss at this point is so slow that it's not worth worrying about, at that point pretty much any on demand, tank-less water heater can handle the word load.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Pawtuckett

I can't stand all the ignorant comments about low-income people and families in this post. Do you think low-income people and families drive H3s or build 10,000 sq. ft. McMansions? Conserving energy isn't rocket science, and I feel like the EnergyStar program has helped educate a lot of people on the monetary benefits of buying certified EnergyStar appliances and devices. Even folks that fall into the low-income category.

Are you a landlord Pawtuckett? My comments are made not out of ignorance, but of experience. My rentals go for about $400/mo and attract the poorest tenants. I once gave a tenant an extra 2 weeks to pay the modest rent, and at the end of the 2 weeks grace, sent notice of eviction for non-payment. My kindness was repaid by hammer holes throughout my walls.

Low income people tend to make irrational decisions. I have had wonderful low-income tenants, but generally I get irresponsible ones that are more concerned with feeding their vices than anything else (including energy conservation).

Energy efficiency tends to concern the wealthy more than the poor. It especially concerns homeowners more than renters.

Originally Posted by ron

one woman stayed for 15 years at 625.mo ten years ago. total redo when she left us. now its 800.mo. another lady and she is working on 4 years. ps mortgage is 998. mo. Ill hopefully make some $ when I retire and sell it.

I'm trying to make sense of your numbers since you shared them. You are bringing in $800/mo but spending $998/mo on the mortgage? If so, it sounds very unprofitable.

Originally Posted by FastTrack

Is tankless really the way to go if you live in an area with very cold water in the winter?

My parents live on the 45th parallel were it dips into the low 20s F and the tankless has been wonderful for the last 3 years. They have a Rennai.