Nissan Leaf

[sendler]

So apparently the EPA doesn't do any of the certification testing for ev's right now. Instead they leave it up to each manufacturer.
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http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/uev/eva/etautp3r0.pdf
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"While EPA strives to periodically update the regulatory test procedures such that all technologies are appropriately addressed, there may be instances when some emerging technologies or fuels are not able to be tested using existing regulations. Because of this, EPA has special regulatory provisions that allow EPA to direct manufacturers to test such vehicles using methods specified by EPA. Similarly, EPA is able to determine the content and appearance of the fuel economy labels when existing regulations do not appropriately address the technology or the fuel being used. For example, the regulations do not currently address how to determine City and Highway fuel efficiency values for electric vehicles. During the period when regulations are being developed for electric vehicles, EPA has specified, for example, that manufacturers use an accepted procedure developed by the Society of Automotive Engineers: the procedure known as SAE J1634. Further, to better approximate expected real-world performance, EPA has directed that the manufacturers adjust the test results (including City and Highway fuel efficiency and driving range) for the fuel economy label using equations and methods specified in the regulations."

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

I measure my charges, and I am sure that is what the EPA does, also.

Neil- What is the phantom load of your Juicebox? In other words, how many watts is it consuming when the car isn't even connected?

My level 1 charger consumes 1 watt when it isn't charging the Prius. I'll upgrade to a level 2 charger if I decide to sell the TSX and get a Leaf.

[P-hack]

@sendler, That paper only deals with dc consumption (towards the bottom), and refers to another paper for AC charging efficiency, which references the vehicle state of charge and station kw readings (if available)... http://avt.inel.gov/pdf/uev/eva/etautp8r0.pdf

I think accurate tracking it is a valid concern, but it is still early in the game for EV's. The slant seems to be on usibility (manufacturer must provide a charger with 12 hour max recharge time) currently, but nothing about making more detailed efficiency measurements available.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by P-hack

@sendler, That paper only deals with dc consumption (towards the bottom).

Yes. Showing us that the window sticker ratings are battery to wheels and are supplied by each manufacturer who are made to promise that they do it honestly.

[Fingie]

I could imagine a leaf as my commuter after some years when they are cheap i should get the Hybrid/EV repair license so i could repair it myself and/or replace the the batteries.

Probably when i get to work at a dealer shop i could get the EV license.

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by Fingie

I could imagine a leaf as my commuter after some years when they are cheap i should get the Hybrid/EV repair license so i could repair it myself and/or replace the the batteries.

Probably when i get to work at a dealer shop i could get the EV license.

You need a license to do your own repairs?

[redpoint5]

While the MPGe system of measurement is silly, it still gives a relative estimate of the cost to operate the vehicle a given distance.

I exceed the EPA estimates for MPG in all of my vehicles by 20-40%.
Assuming a very conservative 3 miles per kWh (actually observing 3.2 mi/kWh) in my Prius plug-in, my real world MPG equivalent in terms of cost per mile from wall to wheels is 124 MPG. That's a 31% improvement over the EPA estimate of 95 MPGe, which is right in line with how much better I generally do over EPA figures.

While my electricity rate is among the lowest in the country, the rate would have to be 4x my cost, or $0.32/kWh, before driving a 30 MPG vehicle would break even in fuel cost. Even with fuel prices as low as they are, I still pay about $0.04/mile in gas to drive the Prius in hybrid mode. In EV mode, my cost is $0.02/mile.

My own calculus agrees with the EPA figures for informing the public of the relative cost of fuel to drive a given distance.

[NeilBlanchard]

ALL the EPA testing is done by the manufacturers, on the honor system. That is why Ford and Hyundai have had to revise their ratings downward - they tilted the tests and got caught.

I believe the EV ratings are plug-to-wheel. My spouse and I are averaging a bit higher than the EPA Combined rating, and that is (mostly) during the winter, when it is mostly dependent on how much the heater is used.

In warmer weather, I have greatly exceeded the EPA rating - and I am measuring it at the plug. Initially, I used a Kill-A-Watt on the factory Level 1 EVSE, and now I am using the JuiceBox Premium. And I am correcting for the known odometer inaccuracy, too.

I think you can trust the EPA Combined rating on EV's to be almost a minimum.

As far as the MPGe rating - it is just a conversion based on the BTU content. Change it to Wh/mile or miles/kWh if you want. It makes no difference except in how you understand it.

[NeilBlanchard]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Neil- What is the phantom load of your Juicebox? In other words, how many watts is it consuming when the car isn't even connected?

My level 1 charger consumes 1 watt when it isn't charging the Prius. I'll upgrade to a level 2 charger if I decide to sell the TSX and get a Leaf.

I would need a whole-house electricity monitor to know this. It is pretty minimal, given it is an Arduino and a tiny (LED? fluorescent?) display.

[Fingie]

Originally Posted by mikeyjd

You need a license to do your own repairs?

Yes, you need a license to repair high-voltage systems. At least here in Europe.