Oregon commuter

[drmiller100]

Originally Posted by visionary

Craig's distinctive style is not for everyone, his direction (seen through the rules of his contests) is way off the mark, and his self-imposed boundaries add little to progress in this arena.

Summary - Electictracer, if you think you are on the right path - then you are!

I think Craig's rules are right on. It is all fine and dandy to dream and armchair race, but when done, people want to DRIVE their vehicles, and they need to haul a bit of cargo.

Other then that, show up and run!

[sendler]

Originally Posted by drmiller100

I think Craig's rules are right on. It is all fine and dandy to dream and armchair race, but when done, people want to DRIVE their vehicles, and they need to haul a bit of cargo.

Other then that, show up and run!

I'm building an aero trunk so I can ride with them at Ohio. My otherwise stock CBR250R will do 90mpg in their event with a little pulse and glide. If Alan gets a good parts list dialed in, it will make a streamliner conversion into a 4-5 day project and you will start to see 100's of adopters as the bikes are still 100% rideable and it will be very cheap. And it is happening now. If it is too cold for the slight amount of remaining open air that is around you then there is ice on the road and no outrigger will help you then after you are sliding on your side toward whatever. It's time for the third wheel. Gyros make a cool functioning show bike but the Lit might just as well be made by Honda as a one off toy to prove a concept. Too expensive and still years away and still just two small contact patches keep you pointing where you want to go. No office lady is ever going to ride that to work even if gas is $20/ gallon. Not if there is a three wheeled option that is just as light and almost as aero.

[Electictracer]

Originally Posted by visionary

Thoughts about landing wheel design

based upon your last post I have the following observations

Design to fail-safe. Using a powered down spring design risks wheels deploying during use with potentially dangerous outcome in the event of a mechanism failure. Here in UK it is mandatory for stand mechanism to be sprung into retracted position (probably same in US) for reasons of safety.

Design for simplicity. Involving air power requires additional components (and mass)plus delays in deployment over a mechanical system. Also the synergy of use a "shock absorber" is in response to what percieved need? Test a simple prototype first before building a complex version - you may not have a problem to overcome!

Thanks for your input, Pete. I’ve been fallowing your project with great interest in the hopes of enhancing my own ideas.

Possible loss of air pressure during a turn is something I did not consider, but needs to be addressed with my design. I was thinking about electrical or pneumatic failure not allowing the outriggers to go down, causing an inevitable slow speed crash. I feel I must keep the spring down aspect of the design for this, and the following reason. If the vehicle sits in my garage all night, I don’t want to have to maintain pressure or power to keep it from falling over.

To keep pressure loss from causing the outriggers to go down unexpectedly, I think I will lock the non-pressurized portion of the double action cylinder up by closing its valve on delay. This is what I was planning to do on the lowering anyway, so it’s just a control wiring change. The outriggers would not be allowed to fall completely in this case. I will lose my automatic dropping upon power loss feature, but this seems worth it in the interests of safety.

Ken makes a great point about seating position and use of legs. I found in mock-ups with my low seat, that it would be impractical to use my feet to hold up the bike. The other issue is water tightness; we have a lot of cold wet roads in Oregon so a door would be necessary to meet the goals of the project (comfort). Any sort of door would make it cumbersome in an emergency to lower a leg.

I considered using a linear actuator or a motor of some other kind like the Monotracer and I presume the Electric Enclosed Motorcycle does. I could not find anything that was readily available, fast, and inexpensive. I’m sure Peravis has a supplier who is happy to provide them with large quantities of specialized products at high prices.

This is the reason I came to pneumatics. Parts are easy to find, cheap, and the outriggers will come down as fast as I want them to. I do not like the complication added to a project I swore would be kept as simple as possible, but I could not come up with anything else….That being said I love new ideas. I actually drew up something very similar to Ken’s design, but seeing how I have no hands or feet free to operate anything manually, I passed on to the next.

As for how my project is going now, I am currently on budget and waiting for my square tubing bending die. I will be making bending templates this weekend. The 2000 dollar goal I do not consider unreasonable. The only thing I’m worried about cost wise is the windshield. I find myself doubting my (nonexistent) abilities to mold Lexan, and will probably hire it out. I have not gotten an estimate yet because I’m afraid….

[sendler]

Originally Posted by Electictracer

If the vehicle sits in my garage all night, I don’t want to have to maintain pressure or power to keep it from falling over.

Kick stand.

[jkv357]

Originally Posted by sendler

I'm building an aero trunk so I can ride with them at Ohio. My otherwise stock CBR250R will do 90mpg in their event with a little pulse and glide. If Alan gets a good parts list dialed in, it will make a streamliner conversion into a 4-5 day project and you will start to see 100's of adopters as the bikes are still 100% rideable and it will be very cheap. And it is happening now. If it is too cold for the slight amount of remaining open air that is around you then there is ice on the road and no outrigger will help you then after you are sliding on your side toward whatever. It's time for the third wheel. Gyros make a cool functioning show bike but the Lit might just as well be made by Honda as a one off toy to prove a concept. Too expensive and still years away and still just two small contact patches keep you pointing where you want to go. No office lady is ever going to ride that to work even if gas is $20/ gallon. Not if there is a three wheeled option that is just as light and almost as aero.

Don't let Craig catch you doin' P&G!


Jay

[sendler]

Originally Posted by jkv357

Don't let Craig catch you doin' P&G!


Jay

I have a slow twitch in my throttle hand.
Don't need it anyway. 85mpg under normal highway riding at 70mph is close enough to at least show up and represent for stock bikes with a trunk.

[Electictracer]

Originally Posted by sendler

Kick stand.

Is that what that springing thing on the bottom of my motorcycle is? I’ve just been leaning it against walls and trees this whole time.

All joking aside, I would like to avoid a stand if possible, seems like a waist of effort to have the training wheels and a kick or center stand. This does not mean it’s out of the question. If I have to have one, I will have one.

[Electictracer]

After much deliberation and consideration I have decided to go with a much more conventional approach, sticking my feet out. It will take some minor modification, and the return of some parts but it will save weight, money, complexity and time. Getting my seat in place and the frame started allowed me to make a more accurate assessment of the feasibility of the feet down approach, and it looks good.

Where my feet stick through, I will have little doors that spring shut. The diagnal supports by my knees will need to be moved back to make room for leg swing. I well rounded edge on the bottom of the door should prevent my foot from catching hopefully.

Thanks again for all of your comments, they have been very helpful in the decision making process.

[Tango Charlie]

Good on ya. Let the guys with obscenely large engineering budgets tackle the outrigger concept. We home brew guys need to use our noodle to engineer in simplicity and lightness, which leads to EFFICIENCY. Which is the name of the game, right?
I like the idea of a rounded bottom on the door. I'm envisioning a fiberglass bulb a couple inches in diameter. That would let pants/boots/shoes pass without catching.

[sendler]

What do you project your final seat height to be? Too low and you run into functional problems with visibility and there may be legal, state inspection issues as well.