Out of gear coasting safety

[Gregte]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

Quote:
Originally Posted by tasdrouille
If power assist was the reason eocing is dangerous then power assist would be mandatory on all vehicles.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG
Not when you consider that a manual rack has a different steering ratio than a power assisted rack. So when the assist goes away, it's harder to steer that car than the equivalent one with manual steering.

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And aside from the steering ratio, as Posted by MetroMPG, when you try to steer a power steering equipped vehicle without the engine running you are also forcing fluid to flow in the steering unit against a resistance. This can be quite extreme in some vehicles.

The same is true of power brakes. In my little 4 cyl. GMC Sonoma it is impossible to stop the vehicle after you have exhausted the vacuum reservoir of the brakes with engine off.

In other words, at least with some vehicles (all I have tried), steering and brakes operation without the engine running is nothing at all the same as that same vehicle would be if it were not factory equipped with power steering and brakes. It can vary from being quite difficult to even being impossible.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Gregte

In my little 4 cyl. GMC Sonoma

Hmm, I wouldn't call a 4000 pound vehicle "little", myself. I've never had a problem in any ~2500lb cars.

[dcb]

It is worth noting that there is a distinction between coasting in gear but with the clutch depressed and coasting in neutral from a legal standpoint, and thus is really hard to enforce on a stickshift. Most of the regulations I've seen refer specifically to coasting in neutral.

Officer: You were coasting in neutral.
You: I was in gear.
repeat ad nauseum.


To demonstrate this distinction, have a look at washington commercial vehicle law:
RCW 46.61.630: Coasting prohibited.

" RCW 46.61.630
Coasting prohibited.

(1) The driver of any motor vehicle when traveling upon a down grade shall not coast with the gears of such vehicle in neutral.

(2) The driver of a commercial motor vehicle when traveling upon a down grade shall not coast with the clutch disengaged.


[1965 ex.s. c 155 § 74.]"

Presumably a lot of the fear surrounding this law was before reliable synchromeshed transmissions and other safety equipment.

[tasdrouille]

Originally Posted by MetroMPG

[...]Not when you consider that a manual rack has a different steering ratio than a power assisted rack. So when the assist goes away, it's harder to steer that car than the equivalent one with manual steering.[...]

That's the kind of information I was looking for, thanks. That can be a valid safety issue depending on the driver/vehicle. I had a 90 Golf which didn't have power steering and a 91 Jetta which power steering didn't work. Both required a similar force to steer, but I remember the Jetta to be a tad harder at parking speeds. I never felt the lack of functioning power steering on that car could be a safety issue, but then again I haven't driven all cars.

[Gregte]

Originally Posted by dcb

Hmm, I wouldn't call a 4000 pound vehicle "little", myself. I've never had a problem in any ~2500lb cars.

My Sonoma is rated at 2930 lbs.

[Noel]

Driver of a COMMERCIAL vehicle is the important part there.

Any Vehicle with a GVR over 10,000lbs or transporting Hazmat requires a DOT # and is "commercial" Does that state consider the pizza guy as in commerce and "commercial"?... thinking like a lawyer her.

[getnpsi]

in the aspire i have never had to hit the gas to get out of trouble. the braking of the car is 10x better than its torque. however i get to play with jerk drivers in my other car because it does have the power and the brakes to back up any maneuver i choose. the example that happens the most is when a dirt hauler is flinging rocks, that necessitates some excessive wot if you want to save your windshield and front end paint. slowing down just keeps you behind or next to the problem.

[dcb]

Originally Posted by Gregte

My Sonoma is rated at 2930 lbs.

My Bad, looks like Sonomas come in a variety of curb weights. Can you do me a favor and update your garage entry for future reference?

[pasadena_commut]

Originally Posted by MazdaMatt

Also, at a stop light if the guy behind you loses his brakes or is out to lunch, or is scolding the children in the back of her suv and doesn't see the light. I stare in my rear-view when I'm at a stop. Never know... that's why I'd rather idle at a stop light if there is any traffic. Saving gas should never trump saving your @ss

Your point about leaving the motor running is valid if there is somewhere you can go to avoid an accident. In each of the three times I have been rear ended my car was stopped at a light or stop sign, with a car in front, and no place to go on either side. Thankfully none of these were really bad accidents. However, had somebody really obliterated me from behind I think given a choice I would prefer my car be completely turned off. Especially if the nose of my car is going to be driven into the gas tank of the car ahead of me.

[Tango Charlie]

Originally Posted by dcb

Playing the Devils nemesis, my wife can EOC all around town and back into the garage on a power steering car with the engine off without any problem.

That's nuthin. My Grandma can parallel park her Mack truck in rush hour traffic with the engine off...
Aw shucks. I'm just way too ornery this morning.

Carry on.