Petrol Vs Diesel- Update 22/09/11

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by 320touring

I’d thought of that, but the PD/various engine codes can be a nightmare to work out..

Yeah, but AFAIK, it's in the manual wether you can run BioDiesel (RME) or not.

Same for the SDi anyway.
But that's not going to be a hoot if you're looking at anything vaguely resembling performance.

So even at £1000 it pays back in a year

Fine when it's new, but on a 13 year old car

[320touring]

Originally Posted by euromodder

Yeah, but AFAIK, it's in the manual wether you can run BioDiesel (RME) or not.

Same for the SDi anyway.
But that's not going to be a hoot if you're looking at anything vaguely resembling performance.



Fine when it's new, but on a 13 year old car

I'll keep an eye out for one with a manual then..

Look at it like this, Repayments on a new car like this are approx £350 a month, with a hefty deposit plus the additional £1000 for LPG..

Or I have a £500 car with £1000 LPG fitted- that's just over 4 month's REPAYMENTS on a new car..

Plus I cna sort this one without a computing science degree

[Arragonis]

Before you dig into the SDi frugality, don't forget they have a fragile gearbox - shared only with the 1.6 Petrol (and we know how popular they are) and not the same as the TDi. Plus the gearing is lower so as well as being very very very very slow they are also noisier and thirstier than they need to be.

A quick Autotrader search with 10 miles and £1k max price brings up quite a few. How about a Vectra DTi (the good one with an intercooller) or how about the minicabbers old fave the 406 - there's a 1999 facelift estate HDi with 110K miles on it near me.

If you want a bit of go and some reasonable modern-ness how about a late-ish 1.4 HDi 206 ? Or even a 2.0 ?

2001 PEUGEOT 206 DIESEL 3 DOOR



£675, although the ad doesn't give mileage so I suspect its been to Mars and back.

Fuel consumption (urban) 48.7 mpg
Fuel consumption (extra urban) 74.3 mpg
Fuel consumption (combined) 62.8 mpg
0 - 62 mph 11.7 seconds
Top speed 112 mph
Cylinders 4
Valves 8 v
Engine power 90 bhp
Engine torque 154 lbs/ft

EDIT - I would also skip LPG, adds weight and you need to do about 18K miles to get your money back. Plus your iS will be worth more kept in original condition.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

How about a Vectra DTi (the good one with an intercooller)

Were there any good DTi's then ?

I've had a couple of Astra company cars.
The 1.7 DTi was a snail.
Didn't burn much, but didn't go either.

The 2.0 DTi was a two-stroke diesel.
Over the regular oil change interval, I added almost as much oil as was in it.
That was considered OK, as others burned even more oil.
In the beginning, we got 1L oil bottles to fill up. Later on, 5L bottles.

Dunno if GM ever got that oil issue sorted.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by euromodder

Were there any good DTi's then ?

You are probably right Mrs A had a company hack Di-16V in 2000 the engine of which was impressively reliable, smooth and economical given it had been abused by pretty much everyone else in the company prior to her using it. The rest of the car was the usual GM mix of poor design and awful quality, combined with strange smells. Wretched, but cheap to run. Never checked the oil though.

It was preferred to the 4dr 325i BMW she had before though - this was the ex-finance director's pride and joy. Which was odd as it lacked a lot of "go" and drank like a wino locked into threshers after closing time. Someone resembling me may have practised drifting it round Sherifhall roundabout at 2am going to the 24 hour pharmacy when A-junior was running a temperature which probably didn't do the economy or tyres much good.

One other thought would be an old-body but facelifted Meganne with the later DCi engine instead of the old dT.



Double bonus if you get one of the ultra rare 4 door "Classic" models.

Or what about a Polo "D" like the one Mr Chalmers (late of this parish) has (or had) ?

[320touring]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

Before you dig into the SDi frugality, don't forget they have a fragile gearbox - shared only with the 1.6 Petrol (and we know how popular they are) and not the same as the TDi. Plus the gearing is lower so as well as being very very very very slow they are also noisier and thirstier than they need to be.

A quick Autotrader search with 10 miles and £1k max price brings up quite a few. How about a Vectra DTi (the good one with an intercooller) or how about the minicabbers old fave the 406 - there's a 1999 facelift estate HDi with 110K miles on it near me.
If you want a bit of go and some reasonable modern-ness how about a late-ish 1.4 HDi 206 ? Or even a 2.0 ?
2001 PEUGEOT 206 DIESEL 3 DOOR

£675, although the ad doesn't give mileage so I suspect its been to Mars and back
EDIT - I would also skip LPG, adds weight and you need to do about 18K miles to get your money back. Plus your iS will be worth more kept in original condition.

I’m gonna avoid the French Peugeot/Renault lot you’ve suggested, as I know too many folks that have had issues with HDi lumps.. and the 206 is a Hateful Hateful car!

If I go Diseasal, it’ll be German or Japanese..but as you say, probably avoiding the Sdi setup from VW

Depends what the LPG quotes are like

Originally Posted by euromodder

Were there any good DTi's then ?
I've had a couple of Astra company cars.
The 1.7 DTi was a snail.
Didn't burn much, but didn't go either.
The 2.0 DTi was a two-stroke diesel.
Over the regular oil change interval, I added almost as much oil as was in it.
That was considered OK, as others burned even more oil.
In the beginning, we got 1L oil bottles to fill up. Later on, 5L bottles
Dunno if GM ever got that oil issue sorted.

Herein lies the reason that the only Vauxhall I’d look at would be an Omega 2.5td..and even then it’s not that good a lump(and I know it’s a BMW lump)..but its RWD

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by 320touring

I’m gonna avoid the French Peugeot/Renault lot you’ve suggested, as I know too many folks that have had issues with HDi lumps.. and the 206 is a Hateful Hateful car!

If I go Diseasal, it’ll be German or Japanese..but as you say, probably avoiding the Sdi setup from VW

Depends what the LPG quotes are like

Herein lies the reason that the only Vauxhall I’d look at would be an Omega 2.5td..and even then it’s not that good a lump(and I know it’s a BMW lump)..but its RWD

We'll have to agree to disagree on the 206, its fine for a shopping trolley and has decent handling (on good tyres mind). Its as heavy as a Mk3 Cavalier though.

HDis can be fragile but if it has enough miles it will carry on. The DCi is a decent lump - avoid the 1.9 though, the 1.5 does mega MPG.

Omegas rust, and the BMW lump has that issue with the fuel pump as in each pump is keyed to the engine so if it goes pop you have to go main dealer rather than just get a replacement. If you want a BMW Diesel then there is the options of the 325tds or 525 version, or the later 320d - just remember to remove the intake manifold vanes.

Jap Diesels are always a generation behind.

[320touring]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

We'll have to agree to disagree on the 206, its fine for a shopping trolley and has decent handling (on good tyres mind). Its as heavy as a Mk3 Cavalier though.

HDis can be fragile but if it has enough miles it will carry on. The DCi is a decent lump - avoid the 1.9 though, the 1.5 does mega MPG.

Omegas rust, and the BMW lump has that issue with the fuel pump as in each pump is keyed to the engine so if it goes pop you have to go main dealer rather than just get a replacement. If you want a BMW Diesel then there is the options of the 325tds or 525 version, or the later 320d - just remember to remove the intake manifold vanes.

Jap Diesels are always a generation behind.

The 206 is like a badly built ford Fiesta..

French diesels were at their best about the 405- the 1.9td was a rugged thing, and a swap to non turbo injectors helps lots..

similar with the Cavaliers with the izuzu lump-manual FPR ftw!

As for the Omega, its a well known fact that the m51 is a horrific engine, with far too much electronic gubbery for its own good.

I've a friend with a 320d (150bhp), £1500 for a new turbo every 100k miles is not my thing..

[Arragonis]

I wouldn't dismiss the French option out of hand - Renault, PSA and Audi/VW/Merc/BMW have had good and off days with oil burners. If you are willing to consider it a 205 DTurbo is a fun little rocket, not the 1.9 from the 405/306 but a non-intercoolled 1.8 but still pretty quick. There were some run-out "Mardis-Gras" models with DTurbo engines which are little sleepers but they were made in Morocco which last time I checked is not well known for car production.

However if you are going to stick with German then how about an off the wall suggestion - a 190D - 2.5. Basically take the engine out of a E-class 250D and mate it to the chassis of a 190E-2.6 (with the modified bulkhead). Auto and manual options. And none of the rust problems of the C-class. Oh and very veggie-friendly.

Or even if you are willing to go Brit then I would have a local search for a late Rover/MG model with the Diesel 2.0 turbo. I had a test drive in a ZS with the 115hp lump and it flew, and the old Rover 200/25/ZS chassis was good enough for me to pass and outrun a Focus 2.0 Ghia on the A701 in my 220SDi in 1997. The Rover 200 models rusted a lot but I think the 25/MG ones are slightly better.



Or for ultimate cool and mega MPG an AX 1.5D - veggie friendly and you know you can get 80 MPG out of one.

[320touring]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I wouldn't dismiss the French option out of hand - Renault, PSA and Audi/VW/Merc/BMW have had good and off days with oil burners. If you are willing to consider it a 205 DTurbo is a fun little rocket, not the 1.9 from the 405/306 but a non-intercoolled 1.8 but still pretty quick. There were some run-out "Mardis-Gras" models with DTurbo engines which are little sleepers but they were made in Morocco which last time I checked is not well known for car production.

However if you are going to stick with German then how about an off the wall suggestion - a 190D - 2.5. Basically take the engine out of a E-class 250D and mate it to the chassis of a 190E-2.6 (with the modified bulkhead). Auto and manual options. And none of the rust problems of the C-class. Oh and very veggie-friendly.

Or even if you are willing to go Brit then I would have a local search for a late Rover/MG model with the Diesel 2.0 turbo. I had a test drive in a ZS with the 115hp lump and it flew, and the old Rover 200/25/ZS chassis was good enough for me to pass and outrun a Focus 2.0 Ghia on the A701 in my 220SDi in 1997. The Rover 200 models rusted a lot but I think the 25/MG ones are slightly better.

TBH, if going Diseasal, I'd be looking for a later car than I currently have- If its a "Daily" I want it to be easy to get parts for, and possibly "more" reliable than the cars I run at the moment

However, deffo not up for a Rover, they make the 206 look acceptible.

It'd probably have to be something like a 306 TD /passat tdi/golf tdi or Skoda octavia