Somewhat related to the thread on wood radiant heat.
As the price of natural gas goes up – it is $9.50/MMBTU for big users who can buy off the NYMEX and more like $12/MMBTU for regulated residential users – people will begin to be priced out of the natural gas market. Already we are seeing substitution for propane in rural areas. Premium wood pellets are already cheaper than propane @ $12.50/MMBTU. Old style firewood is not automatic and has limited utility for most people. I just cannot teach my cat to stoke the Papa Bear.
But ultimately, wood as fuel will let us down. That is why people began burning fossil fuel in the first place. Britain had been logged clean off for firewood, so they began burning coal.
There are still companies that make residential coal stokers (mostly in eastern PA where anthracite is common) and they aren’t even particularly expensive. They are designed to burn “rice” (5/16”x 5/16”) anthracite coal, but if you can get bituminous that doesn’t agglomerate too badly it would work as well. Rice coal is sold washed (and actually a little wet) to keep down dust. Coal is so energetic that a little sheen of water does not diminish its value.
Problem is that residential users cannot afford the extensive emissions controls that industrial, institutional, and utility users of coal can afford. Natural gas, because it burns so clean, needs no emissions controls.
But the big boys are being forced by excessively restrictive government regs to substitute gas for coal. Even the most efficient combined cycle turbine system burns a staggering amount of natural gas per hour. The big boys are simply bidding the residential customer out of natural gas. You gotta heat your house, gas is getting out of reach and heat pumps don’t always work. So what do you do? Already wood pellets bring a premium price – triple that of firewood. Coal may be the only option open to some people.
__________________ 2000 Ford F-350 SC 4x2 6 Speed Manual
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here we are. 2008 A.D. We are long past Buck Rogers, The Jetsons, and Back To The Future Anti-Gravity Skateboards. We should of been 90% on Renewable, non-polluting resources by using Wind, Heat, Geothermal, Solar, and Gravitational Pendulums (Link- Foucault's Pendulum) by the late 90's, but it's all about politicians and the companies they own stock in.
I've just finished reading a book on the topic of home heating. "Natural Home Heating" by Greg Pahl
I think the best idea in the whole book was using masonry heaters. I've long wanted to build a passive solar home, but even then you need a backup heat source. Masonry heaters sound like the best option.
They were invented in Europe after traditional wood-stove use got rid of most all of the usable firewood on the continent. They're essentially a really HEAVY woodstove made of masonry. Most weigh in at 1-10 tons
The great thing about them is that you only fire them up twice each day. You simply burn a load of small wood (even twigs work!) with a lot of air (making a short hot fire) and all that masonry stores and releases the heat throughout the rest of the day.
Unfortunately, with all that weight they require a very solid foundation, and they're apparently pretty tricky to design.
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"I got 350 heads on a 305 engine. I get 10 miles to the gallon. I ain't got no good intentions." - The Drive By Truckers.
I've just finished reading a book on the topic of home heating. "Natural Home Heating" by Greg Pahl
I think the best idea in the whole book was using masonry heaters. I've long wanted to build a passive solar home, but even then you need a backup heat source. Masonry heaters sound like the best option.
They were invented in Europe after traditional wood-stove use got rid of most all of the usable firewood on the continent. They're essentially a really HEAVY woodstove made of masonry. Most weigh in at 1-10 tons
The great thing about them is that you only fire them up twice each day. You simply burn a load of small wood (even twigs work!) with a lot of air (making a short hot fire) and all that masonry stores and releases the heat throughout the rest of the day.
Unfortunately, with all that weight they require a very solid foundation, and they're apparently pretty tricky to design.
Thanks for mentioning this. I heard about this maybe 18 years ago. Supposedly wood has the highest energy content *if* you can burn it efficiently.
While looking on the website you provided I found a software simulation page :
By the 15th century, wood shortages had begun to develop and European governments of the day realized an energy crisis was upon them. In the following two hundred years, efforts were made to conserve wood, with little success. However, as the energy crisis worsened into the 17th and 18th centuries, kings in Prussia, Sweden, Norway & Denmark ordered their craftsman and architects to produce better wood stove designs. This concerted effort produced radically new heat-storing masonry stove designs, which showed enormous improvement in efficiency and corresponding wood conservation.
Many of these designs survived and are still in use today in countries such as Sweden, Austria, Finland and Germany. Temp-Cast fireplaces closely follow original Scandinavian designs, which were later refined and used extensively in Finland.
Masonry stoves are still in widespread use throughout northern Europe and are highly regarded for their excellent heating abilities, safety features and environmentally positive aspects.
...
Recent testing in Finland shows that masonry heaters typically attain combustion efficiencies of 88 to 91%. The Temp-Cast 2000 fireplace was tested by an independent lab in April 1992, showing combustion efficiency of 94.4%, and heat transfer efficiency of 65.4%. (Ref. Omni Environmental Services Inc., "In-Home Evaluation of Emissions from a Temp-Cast 2000 Masonry Heater", May 8, 1992)
Dry wood has a heating value of around 8,000 BTU/lb.
Illinois Basin coal has a heating value of 11,500 BTU/lb.
Southern WV/Eastern Ky bituminous has a heating value of 13,000 BTU/lb.
These big masonry stoves are A-OK if you are building a new house. The vast majority of people are not.
__________________ 2000 Ford F-350 SC 4x2 6 Speed Manual
4" Slam
3.08:1 gears and Gear Vendor Overdrive
Rubber Conveyor Belt Air Dam
Dry wood has a heating value of around 8,000 BTU/lb.
Illinois Basin coal has a heating value of 11,500 BTU/lb.
Southern WV/Eastern Ky bituminous has a heating value of 13,000 BTU/lb.
These big masonry stoves are A-OK if you are building a new house. The vast majority of people are not.
I agree. I think it could only work for an existing house if you "got lucky" and the floorplan/design was already conducive to the solution.
I've built a few masonery wood stoves, and used them, they were all based off a kit from a compeny out of Canada that is currently sliping my mind... they really do work, I've seen them in service for 10+ years, I've built them, made fires in them, slept next to them, cooked in ovens built in to them (nice idea, but people don't time meals well enough to make them worth while), it's correct that they must have their own foundation, if you have a crall space then you have to cut a hole in your floor and build a foundation coming up thru it, if you have a basement and want them in your main living space to be used like a normal fire place then you need to build a tall foundation up thru your floor, if you have a concreat slab it helps to cut around where the base of the stove is going to be on the slab so it can settle and move without affecting the rest of your floor, also unless your house is drafty (fix that!) they work best with air from the outside coming dirrecting in to them.
A few photos of stoves I've worked on: Number one, see how the core looks! made of high temp cement and fire brick like kiln's use. First stove with split granete stone facing (not my stone work), it also has a wood storage space to it's left, this was at the owners requiest and wouldn't be needed if space did not alow. 2nd stove, this one I built nearly all of it, useing the same kit for the core and split sand stone for the facing... spent way to much time on that facing.
I forget at the exact weight of these stoves, maybe 1,000 pounds for the core and another 2,000lb for the face? the idea is that you have enough mass that holds heat that it acts almost like a thermo fly wheel, both stoves were in straw houses were the twigs gathered out of the yard would nearly be enough to fuel the stove thru the winter... really! the first one has used one pickup truck leavle with wood per winter in northern wisconsin were as I write this it is -5.
You can also add a simple or complex masonry chimny to capure some of the heat befor it goes out of the house.
Rumsford fireplaces are an idea similar to the masonry stoves.
These masonry stoves are a nice idea, but even if you are a professional brickmason it is still gonna be one expensive project to retrofit an existing house to use one even if the floor plan accommodates it. Nobody is giving brick away and you house will be a construction site for weeks.
For this kind of money I could buy a late-model VW GTI and give it the full basjoos treatment and have Boyd Coddington do it for me.
Back on topic.
This is probably not a good site to gripe on because this site is a community of grassroots types and the problem in question has been generated top-down.
Coal has to be part of the US energy mix because we have enormous reserves. Coal is best used for large-scale utility, industrial or institutional applications because coal needs at least sulfur dioxide and particulate emission controls. Big operations can hack those but residential users cannot. Problem is that regulations on big users are so stringent that even they cannot economically comply, so they go to gas and that robs the residential sector of gas supplies.
So what will happen is that stringent environmental regulations will cause an overall degradation of air quality where reasonable regulations would have resulted in cleaner air.
Wind, solar and geothermal all still have the same problems they had back when I was a young engineer in the Jimmy Carter days. All those forms are site-dependent and many of the best sites have already been developed or disqualified. Wind and solar are intermittent and require enormous energy storage to be dispatched on demand. This is why I am semi-psyched about the algal biodiesel. Nature has worked out a very efficient solar collector with built in storage in the algae plant. The numbers look right. And converting it to the transportation fuel we are short of makes wonderful sense. I hope it works out. One thing for sure, these forms of energy are limited by their own requirements, not by some hare-brained conspiracy theory.
__________________ 2000 Ford F-350 SC 4x2 6 Speed Manual
4" Slam
3.08:1 gears and Gear Vendor Overdrive
Rubber Conveyor Belt Air Dam
An older couple who own many acres on the top of a mountain ridge have been trying for years to get the neighbors to allow them to put up a Wind Farm.
Their intention is to use the cross winds from the top of the ridge to drive the turbines and produce power.
They have met much resistance to the idea from neighboring land owners. Everybody seems to think it is a bad idea.
"It will reduce MY property values."
"IT will Destroy the wilderness."
and son and so on and so on
We all live here together, we all need to be aware of the limits our planet has, we all need to do what we can.
As long as it isn't me.
BULL****.
forgive my French. Sometimes people just P!$$ me off
I wonder if He had told his neighbors that they were all going to get free electricity for the next 25 years, would there have been as much resistance?
If the people of the area would allow the project to go as planned, then all people would reap benefit from our reduced reliance on hydrocarbon generated electricity. http://www.popularmechanics.com/auto...html?series=11
I would build my own Wind Generator if I didn't live in the middle of Metropolis. I don't even have the resources to put solar panels on my roof. Would if I could. Maybe I can talk to Jay Leno about building one for my garage. I don't need as much electricity as he does so I would sell the extra back to the power company.
My point, which I may have lost in this ramble, is ;
We all need to do what we can when we can.
Simple idea, not so simple implementation.
People as a whole are actually pretty smart one to one.
When you get a group together they degenerate to the lowest common denominator. Sad but true. It even has its own name. Mob Mentality.
Well let me jump off my SoapBox now.
S.
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When you are courting a nice girl an hour seems like a second. When you sit on a red-hot cinder a second seems like an hour. That's relativity. Albert Einstein
Indeed the resistance to wind power is widespread. Not only is it a big issue in Highland County but the Cape Wind project off Martha’s Vineyard is the highest visibility hubbub.
To be successful at all, a wind site must have wind (19 MPH average) and it must be close to load. Highland County fits the bill. Cape Wind fits the bill. Lots of wind and close to load. If both cases the locals don’t want them. Cape Wind is high-profile because the NIMBYs have names like Teddy Kennedy and Walter Cronkite.
It does no good to put the wind turbines in really remote places like North Dakota because all the power generated would only go to warming up transmission wires.
So the rest of us will have to heat our homes with coal the way our grandparents did, and for the same reason: Cost.
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