Possibility of simple-ish hybrid conversion RWD vehicles...

[trooper Tdiesel]

i converted my 93 4 door to 4wd and i can say that the 4wd parts. are adding somthing like 150lbs
also the 2wd springs are 0.5" shorter then a 4wd in the years i work with 92/93 thus the GVW rating of the 4wd is 100lbs more then the 2wd.


the 2wds use a carrier bearing, where the 4wds do not "in the 4 door any way". so the drive line for the 4wd is mabe 10lbs lighter but the trans with T-case more then makes up for it.


i found that there's little difference in gearing 2wd to 4wd, the gearing is related to the trans 5.12 most manuals 4.62 4sp autos and later 5speeds then 4.30 gears with the 3sp auto in the 2 doors are the common ones. but there are others ranging up to something like 5.88

sorta a trend that's like the geos, the shorter the top gear the longer the leggs of the 3rd member. to make up the difference.



ive ran every thing thru my head that i can think about for this thing
track/kick 1.3L 8 valve swap, geo 1.0 swap, Isuzu 2.2L or the car 1.8L diesel swap, gearing swap as i have the 5.12s insane aromod there's massive room for improvement air drag is insane, for its size.

ive thought about a grid charge only set up. do to having a 0.06 KWH rate
i live at 1,000ft and every trip to town is sea level. all i want is to make up for that nasty 600+ft 1.5 mile hill-clime on the way home on the way in EOC is a breeze as i can go way farther than on a flat road.

whats hit me as a road block is how to hook it to the drive.
the T\case to front diff drive line is really close to the side of the trans, also the added drag when the front diff is locked up is quite notable also if you have auto hubs swapping to manuals will be needed. so i figured on leaving it as is for farm use "thus why i installed the 4wd"

and in the rear there's room but not a lot of it.
i was thinking maybe a belt to a motor along side the drive line, issue is the drive line moves as the diff goes up and down ion the road.
with the 2wd set up the part from the trans to the carrer dont move much and i thought that may work better for a belt.....
any way you wanted ideas there yea go.....



i need to update my sig line that 31 is now 35 i figure with aro changes these old rides can crack 40
electric assist with the aro could push it for a short drive much higher then 40.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

A body-on-frame vehicle, especially a 4WD one such as the Sidekick, is always a good base for these experiences since it allows many different configurations for the driveline. BTW if I were going to make a hybrid Sidekick I'd probably modify the transfer case to use only the low-range for occasional towing or off-roading, with an electric motor driving the front differential, mounted in front of the transfer case's front output, with a shortened driveshaft. Would be able to get both engines working for off-road and highway traffic, and the electric motor for slow inner-city commuting.

[GreenHornet]

Originally Posted by a8ksh4

I've been mulling over ideas for how the average DIY'er could convert a RWD vehicle to hybrid w/o too much trouble.

It shouldn't be too difficult to put something between the transmission and front of the driveline, be it a motor, pump, etc. that would recover braking energy.

* Oil pump and pressure tank
* DC generator/motor & batteries
* Flywheel (maybe using a hybrid car cvt transmission to engage/for gearing)
* Big frikin coil spring that winds up

Has anyone on here done an oil pressure/pump hybrid, like what UPS/Fedex were starting to do with some of their trucks a couple years ago?

I am converting a RWD car right now as a matter of fact with hybrid design or full BEV capable ability. As others have stated the body on chassis vehicles are good candidates for conversion since you have more design freedom and options to play with. I adopted this approach in my conversion and took it a step further and made it a reverse trike! mainly to reduce weight, complexity, price, and upkeep. This approach also gives me the ability to redesign the body shell out of composites for excellent aerodynamics and weight reduction compared to the original steel body shell!

Some of the major considerations is Curb weight which needs to be low and weight distribution. Not as vital in a 4 wheel vehicle but very critical in my reverse trike design. As well as driving habits! You must design for your habits not your desires! Desires are expensive and most of the time not practical but 1-2% of the time. Can you live without that 1-2% if so then you can get it done fairly inexpensively and be way ahead of the curve.

If you want a regen capable vehicle then you should go with a brushless motor either BLDC or PMAC motors. They are the most efficient and pound for pound the best bang for your buck in my opinion. The ME1115 motor weighs in at 35lbs I believe and is rated at 12kw cont and 30kw peak @ 96V and 5000rpm. The Agni motors are even better as far as weight coming in at 25lbs however they are brushed and double the price.

Sevcon Gen4 is the controller of choice for the ME1115 and is reasonably priced for regen and plug in charger ability as well as dual motor configurations.

Lots of options choose wisely the chassis as this is your foundation get this wrong and you will most likely never reach your design goals!

Hope this helps a little good luck,

GreenHornet

[a8ksh4]

Convert Your Car to a Hybrid!
http://inhabitat.com/xl-hybrids-kit-...ridconversion/

[darcane]

I stumbled on two similar systems that are now commercially available and basically just what is discussed in this thread:
EchoDrive - Bolt-in Hybrid

XL Hybrids - The Simple Hybrid Solution

Both are marketed towards commercial vans. Neither publish prices... but based on the ROI figures, I'm guessing $10,000 for the EchoDrive. There aren't a whole lot of details on either site.

So, while not cheap, it appears to be a pretty simple system that could install on a wide range of RWD vehicles, possibly even classics.

[oldtamiyaphile]

XL Hybrids - The Simple Hybrid Solution

According to XL Hybrids, the add-on conversion can be done on any car, and the entire six-hour operation is estimated to pay for itself in 24 months.

Must be pretty cheap then

[oil pan 4]

It sounds like GM needs to hire xl hybrids.

[serialk11r]

GM already has e-Assist on some cars, adding a second electric motor would not be too expensive since the battery pack is already there.

[a8ksh4]

So I'm still thinking on this one, reading more about AC motors and controllers, running some numbers for costs and whatnot. I really like the idea of an AC motor attached to the front-driveshaft output of a 4WD transfer case. The w59 trans in my truck comes in a 2wd and 4wd version.

I'm half-way through Paul's AC ReVolt thread, and it sounds like they have a working design there that would work with a PMAC motor, which can be relatively inexpensive on ebay. The setup would regen any time the brake is engaged and assist any time throttle is applied (and there is available charge), or have manual overrides for greater control when wanted.

Doing direct-drive from motor -> Transfer case, I think, will constrain the system. Low torque/power at low speeds, but increasing in effectiveness as speed increases. Here's a chart of motor RPM per


What do you all think here? Are there specific motor qualities that I should look for to increase utility at lower speeds? Hmmm... most of my miles might be hwy on weekend trips, so maybe this is a non-issue. Seems like a lot of the industrial PMAC motors have a recommended max RPM of ~3k, but I expect it would be better to over-rev them and the better ratio for lower speeds...

Components needed to make this work:
* AC Motor from Ebay - $400
* AC Controller ReVolt - $400
* 4x4 W59 Trans or Transfer Case - $?? Used I've seen $300 in the past.
* Farking expensive Battery pack? Rebuild salvage pack from wrecked hybrid - $500+?
* Driveline parts, mounting hardware, and machining as needed - $200
* Misc. electrical connectors and hardware - $200?

If I can get a 50% improvement in fuel economy, then the system would save me approx $400 a year. Economic Payback could be in the >5yr range (knowledge/experience payback is instant).

[Hypermiler1995]

Electric Car Conversion: The Amazing 75-MPG Hybrid Car - Green Transportation - MOTHER EARTH NEWS

This is the best DIY hybrid system I have seen, could be cheap if used parts.