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-   -   Project 60/60 Xfi Metro and Singh grooves (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/project-60-60-xfi-metro-singh-grooves-4935.html)

metromizer 09-03-2008 07:50 PM

Project 60/60 Xfi Metro and Singh grooves
 
Maybe it's already been discussed and I missed it...

anyone following this?

nice detailed pictures of a 3 cylinder Geo metro Xfi head modification

SOMENDER-SINGH.com - Geo Metro XFI, '92 - 1 groove

Johnny Mullet 09-03-2008 10:31 PM

I am so doing that on my next project or rebuild.

fud2468 09-04-2008 09:42 PM

What do these grooves do to cause these gains in power?
Don't the grooves add to combustion chamber area and cause more heat to be rejected into the coolant?
Finally, can the grooves be used on a diesel?
Ray Mac

OfficeLinebacker 09-04-2008 10:09 PM

WTH? From my limited understanding of combustion dynamics and cylinder head design, those grooves provide two bad things:

a) a quench spot
and
b) sharp edges which are great sites for unintended flame kernels, ie detonation.

The only positive I can think of are that they increase turbulence/swirl in the combustion chamber, and I am curious to know the explanation.

OfficeLinebacker 09-04-2008 10:14 PM

OK I just read the front page about "Squish and Quench" and it sounds like pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo to me.

It seems that if this concept worked, we'd see spark plugs with these grooves in them.

Hey, next time someone does a tune-up, take a Dremel and cut a groove in the first 1/4" of spark plug threads!

Not to say it can't be true, but I can't help but think of the old "if it were a simple solution to increase MPG, wouldn't the major manufacturers be doing it already?"

Are there any racing series where this is done?

Daox 09-05-2008 10:36 AM

I think the grooves are a great idea. I have heard very good things about them from very knowledgable engine builders. I can't answer your question about why OEMs haven't caught on. It does say he has patented it though.

Funny 09-05-2008 12:32 PM

It's difficult to make a sand cast head with intricate details like these grooves in it, and labor to make each groove by hand before installation isn't justified by the ability to charge for the "Now with Singh-grooves!" head. That's my theory. Think how aerodynamically dirty stock intakes/heads/exhausts are, and then how much "cleaner" aftermarket units are. That sums it up. Cost to benefit ratio is too small.

metromizer 09-05-2008 02:13 PM

I discovered that site a couple years ago, but just saw some new results on a Metro that caught my eye.

If you poke around the website for a hour or so, here's a lot of interesting observations the inventor has made. I like the guy's style, he doesn't pretend to know why it works, admits his data is far less than scientific (he's working in a little home workshop in India afterall).

I have an extra head I'd like to cut and groove, just for giggles. But I won't be doing any A-B-A testing for everyone, I don't have the time for that. It sure would make an interesting engine dyno experiement where a guy could isolate the variables and take some reasonably reliable hard data.

What I've read sound encouraging, sounds more believable since the guy isn't trying to sell anything, yet seems to share everything. something to ponder

an0nymous 09-06-2008 11:20 AM

Here's an example of a guy that did it wrong and had to grind em out

aerohead 09-06-2008 01:27 PM

grooves
 
Am I to understand that automakers are going to re-introduce the flat-head engine? Mr.Singh' groovy technology appears to show great efficiency in this type of engine technology,and perhaps he may see a rebirth on the horizon.-----------------------Also,I find it remarkable to use both turbulent and laminar in the same context.---------------------And no doubt, physicists worldwide,will marvel at Mr.Singh's ability to disassociate oxygen and nitrogen inside a combustion chamber.No mean feat!------------------------- Addititionally,since vapor- fuel demonstrates no fuel economy benefit over vapor/droplet fuel,it's surprising that a potentially more turbulent mixture would provide greater (over-unity?) energy release.-----------------------Charge turbulence occurs in the inlet tract,a function of Reynold's number and velocity and begins to subside by the time of BDC.----------------------------"Swirl" can occur inside the combustion chamber,a function of port,combustion chamber, and piston top design.Swirl usually leads to charge stratification and heterogeneous pockets of lean and rich mixture.When anticipated and designed around,this stratification can be exploited for certain purposes with up to three spark plugs/cylinder.-------------------------------- Torque is a function of Brake Mean Effective Pressure and has to do with optimum charging efficiency which occurs at approximately one-half peak horsepower rpm.The charge itself is the mass of fuel and air delivered to the cylinder. -------------------------------------- Some independent laboratory experiments would help us to better evaluate any inherent benefits associated with the Singh grooves.I remain very skeptical.


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