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Old 12-09-2020, 11:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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QuantumScape Solid State Battery

I hate battery news as much as anyone, but a company called QuantumScape IPOed recently and the stock went through the roof yesterday after announcing some details about their technology and their timeframe to implement in actual EVs. VW invested 300M into the company and appears to be the first to utilize the tech in the 2025 timeframe. Bill Gates has also personally invested.

Basically, they have eliminated the anode of the battery, saving that space and weight, and created a separator that is impervious, which means no dendrite problems (safer battery).

One issue I see is that the battery expands significantly when charged, so it has to be allowed to move in 1 direction when charging. It basically builds an anode by shuffling lithium ions to the anode side when charging, and shrinks in volume as it discharges.

Another issue is that the gains in charging speed, durability, and energy density don't seem to be that far ahead of what Tesla is planning without that tech. It remains to be seen if manufacturing will be cost competitive. QS claims to have cut a major cost in the manufacturing process (20%) by eliminating the need to build certain layers by completing initial charge cycles in the factory.

Anyhow, it's the one battery "news" thing that seems promising to me amongst all the click bait stuff out there.

Here's the QuantumScape Zoom video released yesterday.

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Old 12-09-2020, 02:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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One does not simply eliminate the anode of a battery and still have a battery.
It doesn't sound quantom at all. Sounds more like the solovated electron phenomenon. Which has barely been studied science hasn't even gotten to the point where we know if one of the possible application is a battery.
Well its definitely different. Usually battery news is something to the effect of "we are going to make the same battery impossibly smaller and impossibly cheaper than the other guy".
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Old 12-09-2020, 02:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
One does not simply eliminate the anode of a battery and still have a battery.
It doesn't sound quantom at all. Sounds more like the solovated electron phenomenon. Which has barely been studied science hasn't even gotten to the point where we know if one of the possible application is a battery.
Well its definitely different. Usually battery news is something to the effect of "we are going to make the same battery impossibly smaller and impossibly cheaper than the other guy".
Apparently GM is planning solid state for v2 of their Ultium battery, but there's hardly any news on that. Samsung is the only other company with solid state news I'm aware of.

Here's my comment from the Bolt forum;

The only news I found regarding GM's 2nd gen Ultium solid state battery is here, combined with an article about QuantumScape.

https://www.argusmedia.com/en/news/2...es-new-battery

Current manufacturing improvements already promise to deliver similar capabilities as the claims of solid state. I can't see solid state getting incorporated into a cylindrical cell considering the volume change that takes place when charging. It would cause friction and movement between the wound layers, and especially cause problems for Tesla's new tabless design.

Seems prismatic or pouches would be the only way to implement solid state, which lends credibility to the notion that it is the superior format.

Regarding Tesla, it's still unclear to me what technology they wanted from Maxwell. Did Maxwell have solid state expertise, or something other than ultracapacitor expertise?
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Old 12-09-2020, 03:06 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Is there a highlight reel? 1:24:10 isn't feasible for me at this moment. The Starship hop is 1:15:xx away.

If they eliminate the anode there is only one connection to the cell? Like Tesla make the can one connector?
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Old 12-09-2020, 03:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
One does not simply eliminate the anode of a battery and still have a battery.
It doesn't sound quantom at all. Sounds more like the solovated electron phenomenon. Which has barely been studied science hasn't even gotten to the point where we know if one of the possible application is a battery.
Well its definitely different. Usually battery news is something to the effect of "we are going to make the same battery impossibly smaller and impossibly cheaper than the other guy".
Start about 8:30-32:30. I haven't watched the whole thing myself as I dozed off sometime last night around the hour mark.
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Old 12-09-2020, 04:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Thanx. Starship got down to 2 minutes and someone wander onto the downrange. It's reset to an hour plus.

If VW is on board it can't be at all bad.

edit:
Starship hit X marks the spot but it left a smoking crater, so everybodies happy.
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Old 12-09-2020, 08:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Glad you summarize the 2hrs of no commentary. Worth watching the action scene though.

I don't know anything about the craft or mission, so I figured the gimbal had broken on the first engine that cut off, especially considering the smoke that ensued. 2nd engine cutoff looked like a repeat of the 1st failure. Was amazed to see them fire up and gimbal back. Just sat down too hard, huh?
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Old 12-09-2020, 11:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
I don't know anything about the craft or mission...
A critical step to becoming a multi-planetary species. No big deal otherwise.

It sounds like the problem wasn't the Raptor engines, it was a fuel supply problem. That over-180 flip must be a wild ride.

I didn't watch the whole QuantumScape video. When the Lithium plates out on the [anode] connector, does it change the physical dimension?
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Old 12-10-2020, 12:28 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I didn't watch the whole QuantumScape video. When the Lithium plates out on the [anode] connector, does it change the physical dimension?
Yes, it expands, but by how much is unknown (to us).

I don't know how excited to be considering Samsung and GM are at about the same developmental stage, and Tesla seems to have a pathway to similar improvements in about the same timeframe using conventional chemistries but improvements in process.

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