Ram 1500 diesel (getting V6 "EcoDiesel")

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

If Cummins managed to get the ISF3.8 emissions-certified back there, it would be my choice for a Ram 1500. Altough it has just 160hp/450lb.ft., is definitely not underpowered.

Originally Posted by pete c

I think there would be a pretty good market for a 4 BT 1/2 ton or whatever the modern day equivalent would be.

I still got quite surprised for the absence of a 4BT-powered Ram 1500 straight from the factory. BTW for many users the 4BT would be enought even into a Ram 2500, since it's already better than the V8 gassers mileage-wise and doesn't feel underpowered at all.

The 3.9 4BT might be a little rough running for most.

The 4BT is actually not so rough-running for an old-school Diesel.

Seems to me that the big 4 would be much cheaper to build than the V-6.

Many people still perceive the amount of cylinders as a prestige feature, that's really dumb but unfortunately is true. BTW a 4-banger would have less internal frictions than a V6, then it could lead to more fuel savings since less energy is wasted as heat.

[pete c]

Yeah, some seem to think that more cylinders is better. I understand the advantages of an inline 6 with it's inherent balance, but, V-6s suck in this regard. Fewers pots, fewer injectors and 2/3 the injector pump add up to some pretty good savings.

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by pete c

Yeah, some seem to think that more cylinders is better. I understand the advantages of an inline 6 with it's inherent balance, but, V-6s suck in this regard. Fewers pots, fewer injectors and 2/3 the injector pump add up to some pretty good savings.

What are you saving exactly? Weight? Fuel economy? I'm sorry but the fiat V6 is both lighter and more fuel efficient than the ancient 4BT. Theres about 30 years of development between the 2 engines.

If you're dyeing for an inline engine Ford is putting 3.2 i5 from the new Transit in the F150. Same engine that replaced the 4BT in brazil.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by tjts1

What are you saving exactly? Weight? Fuel economy? I'm sorry but the fiat V6 is both lighter and more fuel efficient than the ancient 4BT. Theres about 30 years of development between the 2 engines.

The 4BT, in spite of being heavier and older, is not exactly what I would call a guzzler, not even comparing to the new V6. Some owners of 4BT-swapped trucks usually claim mileages from mid-20's in city to 30 in highway, even using outdated 4-speed automatic transmissions.

If you're dyeing for an inline engine Ford is putting 3.2 i5 from the new Transit in the F150. Same engine that replaced the 4BT in brazil.

The 3.2L inline-5 didn't actually replace the 4BT in Brazil. The F250, F350 and F550 were simply phased-out due to the stricter emission laws that started to be enforced in the past year. Both the F350 and F550 used a 141hp version of the 4BT until a detuned 120hp version in 2005 due to emissions, but was still mechanically-injected. Now the engines should run either with EGR, then requiring low-sulphur Diesel fuel which is still not so easily available in the countryside or to use the urea injection, which demanded EFI with the OBD-II platform to automatically detune the engine when it runs out of urea for more than 48 hours.

[Rick323]

Doesn't look like its getting a manual transmission. I may be interested in getting one, depending on what it can tow and mpg.

I agree with most of you-too bad Ram didn't go with a cummins 4 cylinder (3.8l, 3.3l or 2.8l). I think a 3.3l or 2.8l would be more than enough engine for a 1500 and the 3.8l for 1500 or 2500 option.

An interesting read... http://www.turbodieselregister.com/i...insHistory.pdf

[pete c]

Originally Posted by tjts1

What are you saving exactly? Weight? Fuel economy? I'm sorry but the fiat V6 is both lighter and more fuel efficient than the ancient 4BT. Theres about 30 years of development between the 2 engines.

If you're dyeing for an inline engine Ford is putting 3.2 i5 from the new Transit in the F150. Same engine that replaced the 4BT in brazil.

A modern I4 beats a similar displacement V-6 in all regards, particularly the most important, cost. Not really fair to compare a 30 year old design to the new one.

[tjts1]

Originally Posted by pete c

A modern I4 beats a similar displacement V-6 in all regards, particularly the most important, cost. Not really fair to compare a 30 year old design to the new one.

Tell it to the luddites complaining about the lack of 4BT.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Rick323

I agree with most of you-too bad Ram didn't go with a cummins 4 cylinder (3.8l, 3.3l or 2.8l). I think a 3.3l or 2.8l would be more than enough engine for a 1500 and the 3.8l for 1500 or 2500 option.

Nissan was working with Cummins to certify the ISF2.8 for the Titan there in the States, but honestly I still believe it would be better in the Frontier than in the Titan. It can get the jobs done as much as many V8 gassers, but the ISF3.8 outperforms them while retaining a good fuel-efficiency.

Also, regarding the ISF3.8, its current 160hp/450lb.ft. version seems to be not a bad option over the late 203hp/405lb.ft. 3.9L 4BT used in the Brazilian F250, in spite of the lower power, not just due to the higher torque but also due to the lower weight...

[tjts1]

The point most of you seem to miss is that if you actually have to sell the truck to Americans willing to pay real money, as in $30k or more, its not going to happen with a 4 banger full size pickup, I don't care how much torque it produces. Besides if Chrysler/Fiat wanted a 4 banger they would use their own 3.0L from the Promaster van which is being sold in the US. No need to run off to Cummins.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by tjts1

The point most of you seem to miss is that if you actually have to sell the truck to Americans willing to pay real money, as in $30k or more, its not going to happen with a 4 banger full size pickup, I don't care how much torque it produces. Besides if Chrysler/Fiat wanted a 4 banger they would use their own 3.0L from the Promaster van which is being sold in the US. No need to run off to Cummins.

Since a 4-banger is less expensive to manufacture, would eventually lead to a more competitive purchase cost, which could also get attractive to some customers who currently get the V6 gasser. But the 4-banger used in the ProMaster is not so attractive at all with its 160hp, same rating of an ISF3.8, but with much lower 295lb.ft. torque...