Rant- No product specs

[redpoint5]

Nothing annoys me more than product packaging that is plastered with meaningless phrases like "sustainable" or lists an array of products that the batteries could be used in, but doesn't have any specs.

Ryobi has a "40v" line of products. It's not 40v because that's just a marketing gimmick. Since we don't know what voltage it is, we can't calculate the total energy using advertised Ah (can that figure be trusted, or is that a gimmick too?).

I went to the Ryobi website looking for the specs on Wh, and there was a wall of words, but no mention of voltage or total energy. The site advertised that if I had questions, I could chat, so I did. I asked how many Wh were in the 40v 6Ah battery, and the rep said the battery could last 20-30 minutes. The rep asked if I had any other questions, and I said yes, I was hoping to get product specs. I was given this link to "specs", which contains no specs.

Ryobi not-specs

So the most relevant information about a product like a battery can't even be determined unless you buy it and perform the test yourself.

Why is humanity so stupid and easily distracted that you can sell more product by talking about everything except the relevant specs for which you'd base a purchasing decision?

Don't get me started on zero calorie energy drinks that contain no energy.

[redneck]

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🤔

So tell us. What’s up with zero calorie energy drinks that contain no energy ???


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[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Ryobi has a "40v" line of products. It's not 40v because that's just a marketing gimmick. Since we don't know what voltage it is, we can't calculate the total energy using advertised Ah (can that figure be trusted, or is that a gimmick too?).

What makes you think the 40V is just a marketing gimmick? That is the nominal voltage. Yes, full charged voltage will be higher but that is the nature of batteries.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

What makes you think the 40V is just a marketing gimmick? That is the nominal voltage. Yes, full charged voltage will be higher but that is the nature of batteries.

Can it be used to accurately calculate the energy capacity with the advertised Ah? My 18v advertised batteries measure 20v with no load. My 40v advertised batteries measure 40v no load. Which is incorrect?

I'll run some load tests on the "40v" batteries I own. What is the appropriate C-rate? I assume 1C is appropriate given the use cases.

My 40v 5Ah batteries have a label saying 180Wh. I'm charging them up and will run a 5Ah load (1C) to determine capacity. I assume all of the products will perform as a ratio of whatever my results are.

[oil pan 4]

No expectations, no disappoints.

[redpoint5]

Results are in.

My "40v" batteries measured 40.64v fresh off the charger.


The batteries are labeled as 5Ah 180Wh. My discharger maxes out at 150 watts, so I couldn't set the discharge to 5Ah (1C). Instead I set the discharge to constant 150 watts. I set discharge termination at 30v.

The first battery took 1:05 to deplete 4507mA and 164Wh.


The second battery took 1:04 to deplete 4402 mA and 159 Wh.


I've used the batteries for 1.5 years to mow the lawn, blower, and chainsaw during the ice storm. I consider the use to be normal.

An hour discharge is pretty unusual, as the mower would deplete the battery in probably an hour or less, the chainsaw in probably 40 minutes, and the blower perhaps 25. In other words, I roughly approximated a 1C discharge test and obtained 91% of the rated capacity.

Perhaps they have degraded 9% already. New batteries degrade rapidly at first.

I'll have to buy some knock off Aliexpress batteries and see how they compare. My dad bought a 4 battery 120v Ryobi inverter for reasons unknown. He's already got 2 tri-fuel gensets, a PTO Harbor Freight 240v genset, and now the Ryobi 120v inverter. I'd classify him as a moderate prepper without a plan.

[Piotrsko]

Sounds typical for a 10-pack of LIons. 4.06 v is a lot less than what I charge the volt cells to, typically 4.15, can go to 4.2 or more if I don't care about longevity. Battery manufacturing specs call for full charge to empty which you didn't get to but you did do a typical. Wonder what the internal bms circuits tolerate?

If you went to 42v, you would derease your loss in WH but I dunno the effects otherwise to the cells. I do abuse my hobby cells and ryobi packs far more.

[redpoint5]

I've got an order in for a Chinese knock-off 6Ah battery. I expect to receive a 5Ah. It'll probably take a month or two in shipping.

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

If you went to 42v, you would derease your loss in WH but I dunno the effects otherwise to the cells. I do abuse my hobby cells and ryobi packs far more.

I don't have a charger that will go that high. I'm going off the manufacturer supplied charger, so it's reasonable to test their stated figures using the equipment they gave me.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Results are in.

My "40v" batteries measured 40.64v fresh off the charger.

Makes sense considering

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I've used the batteries for 1.5 years to mow the lawn, blower, and chainsaw during the ice storm. I consider the use to be normal.

An hour discharge is pretty unusual, as the mower would deplete the battery in probably an hour or less, the chainsaw in probably 40 minutes, and the blower perhaps 25. In other words, I roughly approximated a 1C discharge test and obtained 91% of the rated capacity.

Perhaps they have degraded 9% already. New batteries degrade rapidly at first.

1.5 years of likely hard use in high draw devices. It makes sense that your fully charged voltage would have dropped. Especially if you are abusing the batteries like most people with deep discharges and storing them on a charger.


However, it does seem like you are correct that the 40V is marketing. Apparently some manufacturers label their batteries based on nominal voltage and some at charged voltage. (Just as some EVs are advertised at usable battery capacity and others at total capacity)

I found this on the Ryobi 40V:

Ryobi "40V" batteries are standard li-ion cells (3.6V nominal) in a 10S2P configuration. Should come in at 42V (10x 4.2V) hot off the charger, 36V nominal (10x 3.6V), and as low as 30V (10x 3.0V) totally flattened - note that the specific voltages that the BMS permits may well be different.

[aerohead]

When mowing with a friend's 40-V Ryobi, I noticed that, when under higher load, the motor appears to literally 'power-up' as if it's transitioning from 20-VDC, to 40-VDC out of the pack.
And My 80-V Cobalt and 80-V Atlas mowers do exactly the same thing, as if under light load, their just 'loafing' on half-voltage.
A VOM shows that the pack IS 'compartmentalized', into two 40-V 'halves.'