The real electric supercharger

[niky]

A turbo is as close to a perpetual motion machine* as you can get. More exhaust pressure means more boost, means more air in the combustion chamber means more exhaust pressure...

It's effectively "free" power because you're already wasting engine power to push air out the exhaust ports. With a supercharger, you're adding an extra 15-30 hp load to the motor that wasn't there before. With an electric supercharger, you either need to source that 15-30 hp via a powerful alternator (at which point, you might as well have a direct belt drive instead) or you're continuously using an extra 5 hp or so to run the alternator to charge the batteries for the dozen seconds or so of boost you can actually use continuously.

-

Formula 1's take is a good way forward... use a conventional turbo, but when you don't need the boost, convert exhaust pressure to electricity. Then use the stored electricity to help spool up the turbo faster (for extra power AND anti-lag purposes).






*Ignoring, of course, that none of this would happen without gasoline or diesel...

[Cobb]

In all seriousness you can get a craftwerks belt driven centrifuge blower for a few hundred bucks and use a range of electric motors to drive it. The bigger issue is fuel management. Ive been told many MAF or MAP sensors do not work well with a positive air flow.

[syncro_user]

Free power from a Comprex would be my choice. Nearly bought an old Mazda the other day just for its 'charger. Also means you can save money and weight by ditching silencers, as it is using the 'sound' to charge the engine.

[Superfuelgero]

Originally Posted by Cobb

In all seriousness you can get a craftwerks belt driven centrifuge blower for a few hundred bucks and use a range of electric motors to drive it. The bigger issue is fuel management. Ive been told many MAF or MAP sensors do not work well with a positive air flow.

Or a used eaton off of a pontiac/buick 3800 for less than a 100 at a self service junkyard (have 2 sitting on the shelf). I'd prefer a VVT like on my bike for all around efficiency and fun.

[ecomodded]

Originally Posted by syncro_user

Free power from a Comprex would be my choice. Nearly bought an old Mazda the other day just for its 'charger. Also means you can save money and weight by ditching silencers, as it is using the 'sound' to charge the engine.

That is neat technology , adding one to a small turbo car would be something.

a twin turbo ..

[oldtamiyaphile]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Yeah, the real question is why on earth you'd want an electric supercharger in the first place. The point of a turbo is that the power needed to run it is free (energy that would otherwise be going out the tailpipe): with an electric supercharger, even if the thing actually worked, it'd be drawing considerable power from alternator & battery.

First of all production super cars are now coming with electric superchargers from the factory. This means they can produce peak boost from idle RPM, which is what gives the latest hybrid supercars their insane performance. The same principle is used in F1.

While an E-S/C does take a lot of power to run, it's only required for a few seconds at a time while accelerating. It's easier to fit than a real turbo and you can return the car to OEM at resale and move the E-S/C to your next car. If the E-S/C were to fail, you're just driving an OEM car, with a Turbo, you're calling a tow truck.

Perhaps the main point for Ecomodders, is that you can still engine off coast a E-S/C vehicle without fear of running the turbo bearings dry.

Here are the links from the previous thread:

FTS-TQ25024V - New site

Green Car Congress: Valeo acquires electric supercharger business from Controlled Power

Green Car Congress: CPT VTES Electric Supercharger Selected for Two Projects

Green Car Congress: Use of a Low-Cost Electric Supercharger Could Significantly Reduce Smoke from Turbocharged Diesel Engines

Jay Leno Tests out the Ricardo Hyboost Ford Focus | Digital Trends

[ecomodded]

Well, it makes Perfect economical sense to the manufacturer.

It would be wiser to buy a tuning box and gain 40 or more hp that way.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Originally Posted by ecomodded

It would be wiser to buy a tuning box and gain 40 or more hp that way.

Only a small precentage of vehicles will see any gains from cheap tuning boxes. You're also taking a bit of a gamble as engines have been destroyed by low end ECU bypassing boxes.

You won't gain 40 or more HP, you'll gain at most 40hp (unless you have a Cummins or something). I have a $1200 tuning box (with engine damage warranty) in my 2.5 TDi for a claimed 30hp increase. This still doesn't fully address the low end hole before the turbo spools.

[ecomodded]

I would suggest people buy $250- $350 dollar one and pass on by your $1200 one.
After hearing you describe its lack of bottom end I'm not impressed either.
What a PRICE it must be real pretty !

[oldtamiyaphile]

Originally Posted by ecomodded

I would suggest people buy $250- $350 dollar one and pass on by your $1200 one.
After hearing you describe its lack of bottom end I'm not impressed either.
What a PRICE it must be real pretty !

Keep in mind I'm pulling 2 tonnes with my 2.5TDi, all I'm saying is I'd rather have boost at idle so the Traction Control light doesn't keep flashing once the turbo hits full boost. Getting 455Nm to the ground via the front wheels of a 2 tonne vehicle will always have it's challenges If I forget myself I can spin my wheels in third

I got my tuning box used for $400 so it was a pretty good deal. If I was paying the new price of $1200 I would have got a proper remap instead, and I would still prefer to go that way but it's a lot of money.

Keep in mind that a dealer charges ~US$400 for an oil change (& 'inspection') here.