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Old 05-24-2012, 03:25 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Daox -

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Originally Posted by Daox View Post
Autostop doesn't actually add complexity to cars. Its just a little additional programming in the ECU, a beefier starter, and a beefier battery, thats it.
Which increases UMC (Unit Manufacturing Cost) :

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For a $295 premium, the new battery technology can deliver fuel economy saving of 3.5% to 10%, according to Ford.
Mazda has the i-stop :

MAZDA:Idling stop technology | Environmental Technology
Quote:
Idle stop systems save fuel by shutting down a vehicle's engine automatically when the car is stationary and restarting it when the driver resumes driving. Especially in urban areas, drivers often let their car's engine idle at traffic lights or when stopped in traffic jams. Switching off the engine to stop it idling in these situations enhances fuel economy by about 10% under Japan's 10-15 mode tests*1.
From what I understand Mazda *didn't* bring their autostop tech to the USA because the benefit isn't quantified in the EPA MPG test. No carrot, no incentive to increase UMC. But maybe that's changed?!?!?!?!?

Even though it's a simple idea, I wouldn't expect people to know about it. It's also got "complicated" states that could disable it, aka is the A/C on, is the battery low, blah blah blah.

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Old 05-24-2012, 03:33 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I understand it increases cost. I was just speaking to the comment about complexity. The only thing thats really anymore complex is the ECU programming which one usually doesn't ever need to mess with. You might even argue that its LESS complex due to having a beefier starter that is designed for many more starting cycles and may not ever need to be replaced.
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Old 05-24-2012, 03:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I wouldn't know either, if you called it that. It's autostop, at least to anyone who's owned a Honda hybrid, and I think Toyota too.
I agree. I also think autostop has been denigrated as being a feature of mild-hybrids.

I have a question. You have the 1st-gen manual Insight. That has autostop. Can you explain how it restarts the car? Is it based on depressing the clutch or ???

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Old 05-24-2012, 03:35 PM   #24 (permalink)
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...it (auto/idle stop) is now being used to help bolster each manufacturer's CAFE numbers in effort to meet the EPA's "new" higher-MPG requirements.
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Old 05-25-2012, 01:13 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I have a question. You have the 1st-gen manual Insight. That has autostop. Can you explain how it restarts the car? Is it based on depressing the clutch or ???
You know, that's kind of like asking me to explain how to ride a bicycle. It's just automatic :-)

As I think about it, it's not the clutch, or not entirely. It will autostop with the clutch pressed and the transmission in gear, and start again when I let out the clutch & step on the gas, but I'm not sure which does it. It'll also autostop if the clutch is out and the transmission is in neutral, and start again when I press clutch & shift into gear, but I don't really know if it's the shifting or the clutch that triggers it.

Edit: I forgot about the brake. You generally have to be stepping on the brake for autostop to happen, and letting off will (often/always? - as I said, I don't really think about it any more) cause the engine to restart.

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Old 05-25-2012, 05:02 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I think Mazda didn't bother because the EPA gain doesn't reflect the full potential of the system enough to warrant increasing unit costs... which makes sense when you're trying to sell cheap cars. (Don't ask me why they thought the expensive SkyActiv engines were worth it!)

I think most of us here already recognize the limitations of EPA test numbers... but the general public will see the relatively tiny EPA gain Mazda would've gotten with the system as some sort of proof of its worthlessness.

Perhaps newer systems with more powerful starter motors that also give a mild assist will make more of a difference.

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