Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-13-2010, 01:31 PM   #11 (permalink)
Smeghead
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Central AK
Posts: 933

escort - '99 ford escort sport
90 day: 42.38 mpg (US)

scoobaru - '02 Subaru Forester s
90 day: 28.65 mpg (US)
Thanks: 32
Thanked 146 Times in 97 Posts
Coast to a stop best, regen next best and brakes bad. Any system that converts your motion into energy will not be 100% but will be better than converting motion to heat and loosing it.

__________________

Learn from the mistakes of others, that way when you mess up you can do so in new and interesting ways.

One mile of road will take you one mile, one mile of runway can take you around the world.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 07-13-2010, 01:55 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
Practical example with an Insight (since I don't have an EV): start by climbing up to Carson Pass (westbound) on Calif. 88, which is about 8500 ft. This will definitely drain the battery pack. Keep going west until you reach the valley floor, about 60 miles. You will have used very little gas - my trip mpg shows its 150 mpg max - and your batteries will be fully charged.

It's not a perfect test, since there are several upgrades where I need to use engine + assist, but I will repeatedly drain the pack on those upgrades, and recharge on the next downhill. So how does this happen, if regen doesn't work?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 02:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
The $500 Electric Car
 
vpoppv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Cushing,Oklahoma
Posts: 430
Thanks: 6
Thanked 26 Times in 20 Posts
I've really enjoyed all this debate, because even if it ends up being a hoax, it stirs up thought. While most people just jump on the bandwagon and say "well the ONLY explanation is your data is wrong and/or you tested wrong" (because conventional wisdom is that regenerative braking works), a few people have given ideas as to why it might NOT work. If you just sit back and think "how would it be possible for regen NOT to work" it's kind of a fun brain exercise. The way I see it is that maybe we can come up with a way of using regenerative braking more efficiently.
I know I'm in the minority here, and my reasoning will be quickly dismissed by some more technically minded than me, but when I was working on my adapter plates, I used my cordless drill A LOT. Well, obviously I would drain the battery A LOT. But what I noticed was that my best use of it was always at the beginning of the day: if I tried to put it back on the charger between uses, it just didn't work as long as that first use. It appeared pretty significant. Granted, apples and oranges, and it's a NIMH battery vs LiFePO4, but I wonder if perhaps it might just be possible that charging/discharging/charging/discharging might very well lead to reduced total amp hours a battery can give out than if you just discharged all the way? Jack has already dismissed that hypothesis, as well as at least two others, but I am still not convinced.....
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 02:19 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: 18603, USA
Posts: 759

The Crimson Crawler - '04 Hyundai Elantra GLS
90 day: 36.71 mpg (US)
Thanks: 221
Thanked 60 Times in 45 Posts
Sounds like the whole P&G vs. P&DFCO thing, except in this case it's P&R(egen).

So basically, my thought to him is this:

EVs - You're doing it wrong.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2010, 09:32 PM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,908

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,952 Times in 1,845 Posts
I'm thinking that it very possible that Jack Rickard did not change his driving style when changing the ways that regen was set up; and when you do not take advantage of coasting (or if the cars he drove do not coast very well?), then that would not improve things.

With a lot of regen, then you have to use a lot of accelerator, and since regen is less than 100% efficient, you are bound to use more. Coasting is always better, since you can use less throttle and if you underestimate, just add a little more throttle. It is too easy to overestimate, especially if the regen is on the throttle and set too strong, so you over accelerate and then over brake, then you can easily waste energy.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 06:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
dcb
needs more cowbell
 
dcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ÿ
Posts: 5,038

pimp mobile - '81 suzuki gs 250 t
90 day: 96.29 mpg (US)

schnitzel - '01 Volkswagen Golf TDI
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 158
Thanked 269 Times in 212 Posts
well the edison 2 folks have a pretty picture, looks like ~22% return in an EPA drive cycle here in a VHC (Very Heavy Car) with next to nothing in a light car
__________________
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to dcb For This Useful Post:
Frank Lee (07-14-2010)
Old 07-14-2010, 06:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
...and yet I wonder if regen on even the lightest bicycle EV would have merit in a place like steep hilly California...
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 06:17 PM   #18 (permalink)
dcb
needs more cowbell
 
dcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ÿ
Posts: 5,038

pimp mobile - '81 suzuki gs 250 t
90 day: 96.29 mpg (US)

schnitzel - '01 Volkswagen Golf TDI
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 158
Thanked 269 Times in 212 Posts
Yah, that would be the best scenario for regen, something where you would have to ride the brakes a lot to prevent overspeed anyway.
__________________
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 09:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,908

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,952 Times in 1,845 Posts
The energy from regen is proportional to weight (just like braking and acceleration) so the weight doesn't affect the proportion of energy you can get from regeneration.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2010, 09:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Patrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Northern Florida, USA
Posts: 510

Hot Tamale - '10 Toyota Prius III
Thanks: 27
Thanked 96 Times in 70 Posts
Neil, Edison2 doesn't seem to think so:

"Other conclusions that can be drawn are that there is less energy available to regenerate in a light car because less has been spent accelerating it, and that as weight shrinks the benefit of regenerative braking becomes vanishingly small."

Edison2 | Facebook

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do-it-yourself regenerative braking? Bearleener EcoModding Central 25 02-10-2013 11:35 PM
How to get instant fuel consumption from Megasquirt TELVM Instrumentation 11 08-29-2011 03:47 PM
Why Nerds are Unpopular blueflame The Lounge 22 04-10-2010 01:59 PM
Good take on things (long) Daox General Efficiency Discussion 8 08-30-2008 05:11 PM
Regenerative Braking - how does it work? WaxyChicken General Efficiency Discussion 19 01-22-2008 08:35 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com