Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-25-2013, 09:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
davelobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 156

CRX - '91 Honda CRX HF
Last 3: 63.1 mpg (US)

the ugly one - '97 saturn SL just sl,not sl1 or 2
Team Saturn
90 day: 44.15 mpg (US)

Vibe - '07 Pontiac Vibe
Team Pontiac
90 day: 44.24 mpg (US)

Hoopdie - '05 Toyota Corolla CE
90 day: 42.58 mpg (US)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 33 Times in 17 Posts
ROI: Do you drive farther (and maybe use more fuel) to get higher MPG numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PA32R View Post
But... unless you can get closer to where you'll be headed when you leave, it does no good.

That's something I've noticed in the short time I've frequented this site and forum. There are tips that recommend, for example, taking a longer route with less stops. That may or may not help - the goal is (or at least is in my case) minimization of fuel consumption consistent with the life one has chosen to live. That's not necessarily the same as maximizing the indicated or calculated m.p.g. For example, if you can get to work by driving a route with stops and it's 15 miles at 30 m.p.g., you'll use 0.5 gallons. If you substitute a route that's 20 miles with less stops and you can get 35 m.p.g., you'll burn 0.57 gallons, or 14% more fuel. This, to me, is the opposite of the way an ecomodder should think.

My $.02...
I'm going to set myself up here (and possibly offend some) but I just can't stop myself. I am able to laugh at myself in the ecomodding area and hope others can too. Here goes (deep breath) ...
PAR32R.. Just the opposite is true!
It is all about the numbers (mpg), not the fuel actually consumed or saved. We are not saving the planet (or our wallet) by using a teaspoon less gas on each trip. But a teaspoon less might bump our tank average .01 mpg, now that is noteworthy. The 20 mile route you described (at more distance but an increase of 5mpg) is absolutly worth it. 5mpg increase is huge! most (of the nuts on here including me) would do it for .5! Don't forget ecomodders put very little (if any) concern on ROI (return on investment). It doesn't matter if a mod ever actually pays for its self in gas savings. If mpg goes up, it was worth the effort and cost.
Am I wrong here guys? This isn't just me is it?

__________________
Get bored very quickly. Vibe, Saturn, and crv all long gone. Been a while but I'm back in the game, gunna see what I can do with this Corolla.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to davelobi For This Useful Post:
chumly (09-25-2013)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-25-2013, 10:03 AM   #2 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,274

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.07 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,810
Thanked 6,689 Times in 3,467 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelobi View Post
It is all about the numbers (mpg), not the fuel actually consumed or saved.

[...]

Don't forget ecomodders put very little (if any) concern on ROI (return on investment). It doesn't matter if a mod ever actually pays for its self in gas savings.

[...]

This isn't just me is it?
I think you'll find it's not possible to generalize quite like that.

Sure, yes, there are definitely others who are "all about the MPG number". But you'll just as easily find members who only want to save money, so ROI is critical. And yet others whose primary concern is energy security. Etc.

Members' motivation for learning to eco-drive & modify varies pretty widely.
__________________
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: Oops, I did it again! Bought another cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage. Mods in progress...
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 10:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,683

The SCUD - '15 Fiat Scudo L2
Thanks: 178
Thanked 649 Times in 514 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelobi View Post
It is all about the numbers (mpg), not the fuel actually consumed or saved. We are not saving the planet (or our wallet) by using a teaspoon less gas on each trip.

Don't forget ecomodders put very little (if any) concern on ROI (return on investment).
I'd say many of the folks on here are in for the money - i.e. using less gas as a means to pay less for gas.

For them, ROI is certainly a direct concern.

As for ROI, my own new CNG car is expected to pay for itself in 10 years, through reduced fuel costs.
@ current prices, the reduced cost of CNG offsets the investment for 100% compared to my earlier diesel car.
I expect maintenance and repairs to be less expensive, despite more frequent service intervals.
Reduced taxes will more than offset the slightly higher insurance cost.


In addition, it's burning the cleanest fossil fuel available, and opening the way for renewable fuel (synthetic gas or biogas, which I tank whenever I can).

Win-Win as far as I'm concerned.
__________________
Strayed to the Dark Diesel Side

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 04:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
In the fasting lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,967

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 51.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,689
Thanked 2,207 Times in 1,429 Posts
For me it is a hobby. A serious hobby; it needs to be effective, and ROI is an instrument to measure that.
I do not really care for the savings as such (it won't affect my diet), but they need to be there or I'm just fooling around.
I'm prepared to take risks. If it works, fine! If it doesn't hey it is my hobby, I can take pride in trying.

(I see now that this was a little off topic. Suffice to say I'll use the route that suits me best based on minimal absolute fuel usage; time, safety, comfort all may affect my route choice, best FE rating does not.)
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.17 Gmeter or 0.1 Mmile.



Investors woes:
"In hindsight, I should have placed a bet on the horse that won the race"
"In hindsight, I should have bet more on that horse"

Last edited by RedDevil; 09-26-2013 at 04:47 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 10:16 AM   #5 (permalink)
Hypermiler
 
PaleMelanesian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,320

PaleCivic (retired) - '96 Honda Civic DX Sedan
90 day: 69.2 mpg (US)

PaleFit - '09 Honda Fit Sport
Team Honda
Wagons
90 day: 44.06 mpg (US)
Thanks: 611
Thanked 428 Times in 280 Posts
I try to reach a balance on that issue. If I can take a longer route with higher mpg, but at least come out equal on fuel usage, I will. Did I save fuel? No. Did I use extra fuel? No. But I got better numbers, which to me is worth the extra time.

It is tempting to drive lots of extra miles and get amazing numbers. I struggle with that. Getting a new high score is a great feeling of accomplishment.

Also tempting is to take the other vehicle on challenging drives with low mpg, to save my high numbers in this car. That one burns a lot more fuel, so it's a loss if I do. I have an event like that coming just this weekend. I'll take my car, even at 15% less mpg than my average, because it's double what the van would do.
__________________



11-mile commute: 100 mpg - - - Tank: 90.2 mpg / 1191 miles
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 10:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
In the fasting lane
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,967

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 51.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,689
Thanked 2,207 Times in 1,429 Posts
So true.
On bad days or for bad trips I could take the I10 that otherwise only gets used by my wife for the school run and shopping.
That would improve the FE average on both cars.
And just waste fuel, as the I10 will never equal the economy of my Insight.

Tempting... but no.
__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.17 Gmeter or 0.1 Mmile.



Investors woes:
"In hindsight, I should have placed a bet on the horse that won the race"
"In hindsight, I should have bet more on that horse"
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 10:46 AM   #7 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,274

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.07 mpg (US)

Winter beater Metro - '00 Chevrolet Metro
90 day: 61.98 mpg (US)

Fancy Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 58.72 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,810
Thanked 6,689 Times in 3,467 Posts
(Admin note... split this discussion about ROI and driving farther to get better MPG into a new thread...)
__________________
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: Oops, I did it again! Bought another cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage. Mods in progress...
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to MetroMPG For This Useful Post:
PaleMelanesian (09-26-2013)
Old 09-26-2013, 11:25 AM   #8 (permalink)
In Lean Burn Mode
 
pgfpro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 1,428

MisFit Talon - '91 Eagle Talon TSi
Team Turbocharged!
90 day: 41.03 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,031
Thanked 484 Times in 316 Posts
For me I wasted a lot of fuel on testing new lean burn mods that I made. Sometimes driving around in a 10 mile circle for several hours just to get the data. I needed to do this to keep the test as close to the last test for modification changes.

But now that I have reach the max I can get out of my system, its more about saving $$$ and using the Talon as a normal part of my life. So the ROI is just starting to get payed off.

Now ROI for mods that I have made. It's going to take a few years to get there.lol
__________________
Pressure Gradient Force
The Positive Side of the Number Line

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 11:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,683

The SCUD - '15 Fiat Scudo L2
Thanks: 178
Thanked 649 Times in 514 Posts
I don't do any extra driving to merely improve the numbers.

I sometimes do take a slightly (3.4 km) shorter, but much slower and more fuel efficient route after filling up, but it takes forever.
If I were to take this route for an entire tank, I'd beat the car's NEDC FC figures ... and do so using CNG that has over 20% less energy than what VW used during testing.

The - somewhat unexpected, I should say ! - shortest route, means going through a toll-tunnel twice/day, negating any advantage despite being 25% shorter (Toll 1 way costs as much as driving to work and back ...)
__________________
Strayed to the Dark Diesel Side

  Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2013, 01:08 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 808 Times in 592 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelobi View Post
Don't forget ecomodders put very little (if any) concern on ROI (return on investment). It doesn't matter if a mod ever actually pays for its self in gas savings. If mpg goes up, it was worth the effort and cost.
Am I wrong here guys? This isn't just me is it?
Why should it be? It is to some extent a hobby, and don't most people expect to spend money on their hobbies? Not to mention that I have an adequate supply of money, and can always get more :-)

But I don't take longer routes just to increase my mpg number, though sometimes it has that effect. As for instance one trip I often make offers a choice of about 10 miles of dead-straight 70 mph freeway, or 11 miles of 50 mph country road running through open fields. 9 times out of 10, I take the latter. Doing so does boost my mpg number, but that's not why I go that way.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com