Seems like electric is the end goal

[freebeard]

The last time I bought a battery, it was a $45 exchange because they're recycled. OTOH it was Brooks in Glenwood and they're out of business, so [shrug].

If you change chemistries you bear the upfront cost.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

The last time I bought a battery, it was a $45 exchange because they're recycled.

2nd to last time I bought a Pb-acid battery was at a GI Joe's going out of business sale. Paid $40 for a car battery. Don't remember the group size. Figured I might as well spend the $40 than continue my morning routine of waking up in my Subaru, and push starting it by myself in a vacant parking lot as I headed to the gym for a workout and shower.

[freebeard]

Via slashdot:
hardware.slashdot.org: Florida EVs May Be Charged 'Inductively' By One Mile of Highway

A Norwegian company named ENRX "wants to inductively charge electric vehicles with 200 kW while driving on a section of highway in Florida," according to the "electric mobility industry" news site electrive.com.

"A one-mile section of a four-lane highway near Orlando is to be electrified."
ENRX has teamed up with the Central Florida Expressway Authority and the Aspire Engineering Research Center for an initiative to build a one-mile (1.6-kilometre) section on a four-lane highway near Orlando that will inductively charge the batteries of moving electric vehicles at 200 kW.

The principle is clear: the electric vehicle batteries are fitted with a special receiver pad and charged as they drive over the coils embedded in the road. In the process, the energy is transferred from these coils to the receiver pad mounted on the vehicle floor, which according to ENRX should provide "a safe, wireless power supply" even at motorway speeds....

"When you can charge while driving, range anxiety and frequent charging stops will be a thing of the past," says ENRX CEO Bjørn Eldar Petersen... "Dynamic charging can reduce the need for large battery capacities, allowing cars to be equipped with lighter and more affordable battery packs."

Always a good idea to check the ifrst comment.

Seems more suitable for buses at stops (Score:3)
by RightwingNutjob ( 1302813 ) on Sunday May 07, 2023 @03:39PM (#63504575)

If you want to do it the hard way and not string up overheard wires, that is.

Also, 200 kW * 1 mi / 60+mph 3.3 kWh.

Which I guess just covers the mile driven and a little extra for most EVs. So yeah.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

I don't think there is any cheap way to overhaul/ramanufacture the HV batteries without drastically affecting longevity.

That's why I don't believe the average Joe would be so willing to embrace the hybrids at a faster pace, or jump into the EVs bandwagon as soon as Chinese battery factories would rather expect...

I'm certain that batteries are a wear item that when they wear out, they wear out and need to be replaced by a new one that will cost $$$. You can "grid charge" them or whack-a-mole and change dead cells with other used cells but in the end it's all just prolonging the pain of having a dying battery.

And figuring out which dead cells from one battery pack could be replaced by salvageable ones from another battery pack sourced from a junkard doesn't sound as dumbproof as adapting a carburettor to an econobox fitted with a naturally-aspirated gasser. And nowadays it's nearly impossible to spend a week in Florianópolis during summer without spotting at least one car from Argentina which had the stock port-injection setup replaced by some cheap carburettor

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

And figuring out which dead cells from one battery pack could be replaced by salvageable ones from another battery pack sourced from a junkard doesn't sound as dumbproof as adapting a carburettor to an econobox fitted with a naturally-aspirated gasser.

The problem is that when some cells start to go the others are close to dying themselves.

This creates what hybrid owners call "whack-a-mole". It's like the game of the same name. You figure out what modules have the bad cells, change them, then another module pops up with a bad cell, you change it, then another, you change it, then another.

It's best to just replace the whole thing with a brand new, high quality battery, unless you're just trying to get it to run so you can sell it.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zachary

The problem is that when some cells start to go the others are close to dying themselves.

This creates what hybrid owners call "whack-a-mole". It's like the game of the same name. You figure out what modules have the bad cells, change them, then another module pops up with a bad cell, you change it, then another, you change it, then another.

Indeed. I can compare it to what a shade-tree mechanic would do in order to troubleshoot a non-hybrid econobox, all while trying some makeshift fixes which would be supposed to outlast whichever setup was factory-fitted

It's best to just replace the whole thing with a brand new, high quality battery, unless you're just trying to get it to run so you can sell it.

Of course doing the most orthodox fix is the best way to go, but you know, once a car had lost so much of its resale value that fixing it properly becomes more expensive than its resale value, to the point it would be worth more for the scrap material, folks would resort for the cheapest way to make it run at least, even if the next failure is already predictable...

[Piotrsko]

How about providing your hard data saying the replaced battery packs are failing at any faster rate than an all new one?

Mtbf events tend to be scattered all over the data set.

Kinda like saying a remanufactured motor doesn't last as long as a factory new one.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

How about providing your hard data saying the replaced battery packs are failing at any faster rate than an all new one?

Mtbf events tend to be scattered all over the data set.

Kinda like saying a remanufactured motor doesn't last as long as a factory new one.

All I can say is I've read dozens of threads and talked to several people and I haven't known one that has had an aftermarket battery last for more than 2 or 3 years with the exception of ones that are nearly the same price as the OEM battery.

Of course that may not be the truth for everyone as negative data tends to be more popular. But the negative experiences people have had are enough to turn me away from buying a battery for my Prius that's less than $1,500. And even then, there are only a couple battery makers that I trust that are above that price.

[Piotrsko]

Ah then you are basing your conclusions on pretty much hearsay from dis satisfied people.

Got it.

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by Piotrsko

Ah then you are basing your conclusions on pretty much hearsay from dis satisfied people.

Got it.

So you're saying I should go throw $600-$1,000 on some random aftermarket HV battery with some 6 month warranty based on what?

EDIT:
I'm noticing that now that Toyota no longer is offering Gen 2 Prius batteries the aftermarket batteries are now all double or more the price. About the cheapest I can find is the NAPA battery for $1,750.00 after you trade in your core ($1,073.00 core charge), which is the same price as I could have gotten an OEM battery from a dealership not that long ago.

According to their website, these batteries may be renewed with cells from other batteries. And this is EXACTLY what I'm getting at. These batteries are ones that are made up from several still working cells from a battery with a dead cell or two. Which is WHY they want your old worn out battery.

When I measured the left over capacity from each of the modules on my 2006 Prius they were all very similar. I measured three newer ones from a gen 3 Prius and they all had double the capacity. So yes, this is why there's no point in recycling the modules this way. They're all about to go.

That, or you get a battery with cheaply made new cells. If anyone wants to go the aftermarket route, go ahead. But stop saying your cheap $12 cells from Aliexpress are going to last as long as the OEM battery. Stop saying that a battery made from a bunch of modules all on their last leg is going to last. I want proof, not words!