Seems like electric is the end goal

[Isaac Zachary]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

Giving AI control of the power grid is probably a very bad idea.

Here is a perfect example of how to get "most of your electricity from wind".
https://reneweconomy.com.au/one-of-a...gets-makeover/



They're definitely not cheap and "efficient" is subjective.

I was saying if there were lots of giant cheap batteries capable of working as grid storage then that would make a huge difference.

[freebeard]

...energy storage (batteries, for an example)

I took it as more general. Pumped hydro, thermal sand batteries, etc.

I favor duckduckgo.com/?q=liquid+metal+battery

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

It makes the power grid unstable.
In California they created the goose neck load profile when they have too much solar come on line. The max amount for solar is around 5%, California proved more than 10% is definitely too much.
More than 20% power coming from wind makes the power grid unstable because when the wind stops gas plants have to take over. And it takes hours to get gas plants up and running at full power. The northern half of new Mexico can go from running nearly 2Gw of wind to 0 in about 5 to 6 hours, 5hrs is the fastest wind shutdown I have observed, it could happen even faster and I just haven't seen it.
Sure 70% of power could come from wind, then there would have to be more even faster acting, always ready power plants to pickup the slack when wind cuts out. That means lots of thermal plants just hanging out, idling, burning fuel, paying employees to not make any power.
In theory you could have any amount of wind power if you had hydro electric power to back up the wind when it cuts out. But that's not practical anywhere. Places with lots of hydro electric tend to have mountains and elevation changes, wind likes flat open areas.
Diesel driven piston engines come on line real fast...
There's effectively 0 grid battery power in the US.
The best thing to replace coal and most of the gas with is nuclear.

Why would you use California to define the state of global power generation, grid-scale storage, and bi-directional power transfer technology, etc.?
Sunlight falls all over the contiguous 48-States, Canada, and Mexico.
Wind energy, ditto.
81% of your oil and gas wells are drilled with foreign barite, purchased from China, India, Morocco, and Mexico.
Your fossil fuels / vehicles ( generators ) require un-American: Cobalt, Platinum, Paladium, Flourspar, Rheniuum, Cerium, and Rhodium for their manufacturer / operation.
2.5-micron carbon particulate matter from diesel exhaust passes directly into the human fetus, causing spontaneous abortion.( Right to Death ).
Salmon, Idaho, the only USA source of Cobalt ,just entered the market for the 1st time in October, 2022, and it must be shipped 13,000-miles, roundtrip to Sao Paulo, Brazil for processing, on bunker fuel-burning freighters before it can be used.
The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists have pegged the upper power density for chemical energy storage at 9-Megajoules per kilogram, making for a Tesla Model S with 4,194-miles range/ charge ( grid-scale power storage ).
If you'll pull back, and look at the bigger picture, you may find that there are already competitive technological solutions currently in the marketplace which can satisfy our energy challenges.
It's just a matter of scale.
I believe that many with SCI security clearances are sick and tired of the USA being in a position to be held ransom for strategic materials that 'don't grow in the USA.'

[freebeard]

Made me look.

Including results for Fluorspar
Search only for "Flourspar"?
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Fluorite
Fluorite - Wikipedia
Fluorite (also called fluorspar) is the mineral form of calcium fluoride, CaF 2.It belongs to the halide minerals.It crystallizes in isometric cubic habit, although octahedral and more complex isometric forms are not uncommon.. The Mohs scale of mineral hardness, based on scratch hardness comparison, defines value 4 as fluorite.. Pure fluorite is colourless and transparent, both in visible and ...

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by aerohead

If you'll pull back, and look at the bigger picture, you may find that there are already competitive technological solutions currently in the marketplace which can satisfy our energy challenges.
It's just a matter of scale.
I believe that many with SCI security clearances are sick and tired of the USA being in a position to be held ransom for strategic materials that 'don't grow in the USA.'

What are the competitive technological solutions currently in the marketplace which can satisfy our energy challenges?

Based on my experience, it seems there are 2 major sects of the climate catastrophism religion.

One believes the technology already exists to replace fossil fuels as energy sources almost entirely, but the greedy oil industry is suppressing alternatives.

The other understands that the technology does not exist, and even if it did, the cheap energy would just increase consumption in everything else. Their final solution is less people.

Of those who believe less people is the solution, a tiny portion of them correctly understands that overall wealth and the ease of living we now enjoy would be diminished. They believe the sacrifice is worth it.

As to US minerals, we're rich. We've decided not to extract the minerals here. Furthermore, we've decided to not update our refineries to handle the type of oil shale produces, so we export that out, and import in the type of oil our refineries were designed for.

The US could mine and manufacture everything, but we choose not to.

I'm fine with globalism so long as all eggs aren't in a single communist country. If there were multiple countries producing the same type of good, that creates a bit of resiliency.

[freebeard]

What are the competitive technological solutions currently in the marketplace which can satisfy our energy challenges?

https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Tesla_Powerwall
Tesla Powerwall - Wikipedia
The Tesla Powerwall is a rechargeable lithium-ion battery stationary home energy storage product ... said that the Powerwall makes sense in Australia and Germany where electricity is very costly but solar panels are well distributed. As of October 2019, the Tesla Powerwall 2 costs $14,600 for the recommended two units (plus $2,500 to $4,500 for ...

https://electrek.co › 2021 › 07 › 16 › tesla-launches-virtual-power-plant-powerwalls-help-california-grid
Tesla launches its own virtual power plant with Powerwalls to help ...
16 Jul 2021Unite as a Tesla Community: Team up with other Powerwall owners who are accelerating the world's transition to sustainable energy and help form the largest distributed battery in the world ...

https://www.utilitydive.com › news › pge-tesla-launch-program-to-use-customers-powerwall-batteries-to-tackle › 626297
PG&E, Tesla launch program to use customers' Powerwall ... - Utility Dive
29 Jun 2022California has the largest amount of distributed battery storage in the nation, hitting 900 MW from more than 75,000 systems installed, California Solar and Storage Association Policy Director

It's a start.

Based on my experience, it seems there are 2 major sects of the climate catastrophism religion.

There's also, the you-ain't-seen-nothin'-yet Suspicious 0bservers.

[freebeard]

Maybe I spoke too soon?

www.canarymedia.com: This NASA tech might just spur a major grid battery breakthrough

EnerVenue’s still got plenty to prove, but it already has a pipeline of orders and more than $100M in funding. A factory in Kentucky is on the way.
...
Nickel hydrogen can charge and discharge quickly or slowly, multiple times a day, at any temperature, he added. The physical cause of thermal runaway, which is the culprit behind lithium-ion fires, simply doesn’t exist in the tank structure of nickel-hydrogen batteries; that means EnerVenue doesn’t need any fire-suppression or HVAC equipment, which adds cost and eats up energy.
...
EnerVenue warranties 20,000 cycles over 20 years with effectively no restrictions on how to operate. But the product is designed to last 30,000 cycles, Heinemann said; some of the nickel-hydrogen units up in space ran for 100,000 cycles.

“Our technology is much more forgiving,” Heinemann said. ​“It changes the mindset from ​‘A battery is a consumable that has to be babied’ to ​‘It lasts as long as the solar panels or wind turbines it’s paired with, maybe longer.’”
...
As for round-trip efficiency — how much of the power that goes in is able to be withdrawn and used — EnerVenue says it hits 85% to 90%. That’s comparable to lithium ion, and better than some batteries. That’s a metric where non-lithium technologies often suffer.
[snip]
“If you’re doing a twist on an old technology, it won’t take you decades — it will take you years,” said Chamberlain.

That’s an area where EnerVenue believes it has leverage over other battery challengers.

“We’re drafting off of three decades of real use,” Heinemann said, referring to the NASA deployments.

[oil pan 4]

Because forget the rest of the word.
California shows how much of joke grid scale storage is.
I thought abortion was good? Now it's bad?
You are high if you think batteries will hit 10 Mj per Kg. If you believe all the click bait battery related news articles then it's understandable.
"It's simply a matter of scale" I'm guessing that's a joke?

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Maybe I spoke too soon?

www.canarymedia.com: This NASA tech might just spur a major grid battery breakthrough

There's supposedly a huge battery break though about every 9 hours.

[freebeard]

Because forget the rest of the word.
California shows how much of joke grid scale storage is.
I thought abortion was good? Now it's bad?
You are high if you think batteries will hit 10 Mj per Kg. If you believe all the click bait battery related news articles then it's understandable.
"It's simply a matter of scale" I'm guessing that's a joke?

You thought abortion was good and I'm the one that's high?

Tesla's solution was trialed in Texas. should it not go where it's most desperately needed?

If you can't get what distinguishes EnerVenue from other competitors, perhaps the full article linked might help?