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Old 10-08-2019, 08:13 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2016 Versa View Post
..... tell your wife that's her speed limit until she starts....
What? My wife still does what an auto salesman told her, 40 years ago.... keep the rpms between 2000 & 4000 rpms. Even using smaller engines today, she follows that advice, even tho much extra acceleration is above 4000rpms & extra MPG can be had at 1200rpms.

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Old 10-09-2019, 09:19 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by #SaveTheManuals View Post
I was wondering how other hypermilers deal with what must be a pretty common situation: obsessively hypermiling only to have all your hard-earned tank/lifetime MPG average diminished by a non-hypermiling spouse or other driver in the household.

Now that we bought our first new car in 15 years, I'm having fun trying to keep the lifetime MPG (e.g., as recorded in the car's computer and also the Garage section here) as high as possible. That's hard to do when my wife isn't nearly as invested in hypermiling as I am. She does OK when she's concentrating on it, but it's not a big priority for her. The MPG predictably dips when she's focused on other things while driving.

Since she'll probably be putting about half the miles on the car, I know that the lifetime MPG is going to end up roughly halfway between "my" MPG of maybe 41, and whatever my wife gets (probably mid-30s). Similarly, every tank is going to be an exercise of me trying to slowly raise the average from wherever my wife left it during her last trip, up toward (but never reaching) 41 MPG.

I think the only way to be at peace with the situation -- short of my wife unexpectedly deciding she wants to be a hypermiler -- is trying to ignore the tank/lifetime average and just focus on my own per-trip MPG. Luckily the car's computer seems pretty accurate so far, maybe 1-2% optimistic, so it should be easy enough to do. Unfortunately the only way to maintain a history of my trip-MPGs is to write it down after each trip. :/

Anyone (everyone?) else in the same boat? I'm really just looking for commiseration, though any mental or practical hacks to deal with it are welcome as well.

It’s the wrong question.

Back off and look at the lifetime expense of the vehicle. Fuel isn’t major. “”Major” is in keeping it the longest period of time. The only real variable is the annual miles.

Cutting the annual miles total by reducing number of cold starts and combining trips is fuel economy. The cake. Achieving the same ends. Lower fuel cost per mile is only the frosting.

It’s a foolish tail-chase that ignores total miles per annum.

90% of Americans go to 90% of the same places 90% of the time per the DHS. That’s the focus. Combined trips to avoid cold starts.

As the vehicle simply sits the majority of its life (22 of 24 hours) having it stored in an insulated garage is the necessary addition, past scheduled washes, and maintenance (accelerated 10%).

List those places. Draw up a route per Mapquest FE routing that takes one by highway and works back to the house. No left turns. Parking that involves fewest turns of the wheel (easiest egress). Etc.

Be a husband and HUSBAND the resources. Discipline. The lifetime total of cars owned can be reduced.

Make the CATEGORY of family transportation the focus.

Make the sweetener worthwhile. I did this some years back and, the lowered fuel use on an annual basis COMPLETELY subsidized 5,000-miles of vacation miles towing the travel trailer.

Break out the gallons of fuel consumed annually. That’s the start. And the target. The difference between the mpg you gets or she does is vanishingly small over the vehicle lifetime.

What’s the fuel cost PER MILE difference between you two?

Insanity is sticking one’s nose harder against the grindstone (the premise you’re currently stuck with). Until USE is addressed, you won’t be the husband you promised you’d be. The rest ISN’T to the point.

“Concentrating on other things while driving” should be a greater concern. Given how bad Americans are behind the wheel. The fundamental is space from others. All sides, not just ahead. An example is coming to a stop behind another such that pavement is easily visible AS IT PROVIDES CUSHION AGAINST A REAR COLLISION plus enables getting around a stalled vehicle OR escape against a robber AND enables one to start rolling earlier.

At a stop sign or light, one stops WELL BACK from the intersection line. Wheels straight if a turn is the next maneuver.

Entering a highway on a ramp? No one out ahead for MORE THAN 300’ even if that means braking & waiting for them to get out ahead. And hitting the road ABOVE the upper posted limit so as to merge safely & legally; brakes change a vehicles speed far faster than the throttle. 500’ ahead of a big truck is a MINMUM. Etc.

On the highway in rural areas one shouldn’t have ANY other vehicles near one. Ahead, behind or adjacent. Ever. Do the necessary to get them gone.

Accident avoidance, thus risk reduction, is the real focus of driving. FE takes a back seat. It’s integrated AFTER proper practice is established. It’s a decision tree and RISK is always first.

Given what you’ve written, FE isn’t a genuine concern about your wife’s driving. Given what I see 100k miles per annum on the roads, I’d start with what you yourself do. Avoid risk first, emphasize steady state second. Your humility at starting over at driving is what will sell the deal.

Be a man.

.
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Last edited by slowmover; 10-09-2019 at 10:01 AM..
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:32 PM   #23 (permalink)
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@slowmover --

Thanks for the reply. It seemed to include a lot of assumptions and advice based on those assumptions. I'm not going to argue with you on specific points in your reply, but I'll try to summarize the big picture:

We actually don't drive all that much, we already optimize several of the more critical things you brought up (minimizing driving, combining trips, minimizing cold starts, etc.), and our safety record speaks for itself -- zero combined accidents in the past 20+ years. Unless you count the deer that ran out of the woods and crashed into the side of our car at night about 15 years ago.

Furthermore, the hypermiling stuff is merely a hobby of mine, albeit one that arises due to an innate personality trait of perpetual optimization. I don't really do it for the sake of saving a lot of $$, or reducing carbon. I do it because it's an optimization problem and it really tickles my fancy. As you say, it's frosting. Delicious frosting that adds enjoyment to my life and additional purpose to any occasion where I have to drive.

One specific note: when I said my wife is "focused on other things while driving" -- I'm not referring to distracted driving like looking at her phone, putting on makeup, or something like that. She's just focused on driving and doesn't really get a kick out of optimizing the FE. She's not really interested in creating a perfect scenario with no cars around so she can P&G to her heart's content. That's my bag, not hers.
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The idea of a dedicated beater/hypermiler-for-me-only is definitely appealing....
My wife needs her car for her career. That's why we got two Elantras, a manual & an automatic. The thing is she loves the manual. So I get the auto.
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Old 10-09-2019, 03:02 PM   #25 (permalink)
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My wife needs her car for her career. That's why we got two Elantras, a manual & an automatic. The thing is she loves the manual. So I get the auto.
Cool that your wife loves the manual! ..but sorry you got stuck with the auto.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Cool that your wife loves the manual! ..but sorry you got stuck with the auto.
Oh, I get to drive the manual at times & the Elantra manual is wonderful. As for the automatic, it is geared 6% higher than the manual. Since I also use larger diameter used tires, my rpms get low on the highway, which is nice for those long drives & even for the stop&go&stop traffic jams.

But, as i said a month(?) ago, the manual is spectacular in the mountains & rural areas, even to the point that I feel I have a bigger engine in the manual car. Despite the bigger engine "feel" to the manual, the manual gets as good or better MPG than the auto.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:46 PM   #27 (permalink)
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My wife drives in a reasonably efficient way but she kills the mpg with idling. She will sit an wait for my daughter reading a book and leave the thing running for an hour or more. Then I doubled down on that and installed a remote start for her as well. Now I'm also buying a 10-15 min warmup in the winter. Small prices to pay for happy wife, happy life.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
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If you modify your vehicle you might subconsciously change your driving so that you get better milage to justify your modification. It is not an independent test.

If you modify your vehicle and your non-hypermiling spouse who neither knows nor cares about the modification gets (or doesn't get) a milage improvement, that is an independent test you can be sure of.

So change your attitude and view your spouse's driving as a reliable test method and thus a positive thing.
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Old 10-15-2019, 03:40 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Awesome perspective. In fact, don't even let the spouse in on the modification to keep the trial as pure as possible.

Many mods have concrete methods to measure effectiveness though. Aero improvements can be seen in coast down tests, for instance. Other mods such as coolant heaters would be more difficult to test, and that's where day to day driving comes in.
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Old 10-16-2019, 01:20 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #SaveTheManuals View Post
@slowmover --

Thanks for the reply. It seemed to include a lot of assumptions and advice based on those assumptions. I'm not going to argue with you on specific points in your reply, but I'll try to summarize the big picture:

We actually don't drive all that much, we already optimize several of the more critical things you brought up (minimizing driving, combining trips, minimizing cold starts, etc.), and our safety record speaks for itself -- zero combined accidents in the past 20+ years. Unless you count the deer that ran out of the woods and crashed into the side of our car at night about 15 years ago.

Furthermore, the hypermiling stuff is merely a hobby of mine, albeit one that arises due to an innate personality trait of perpetual optimization. I don't really do it for the sake of saving a lot of $$, or reducing carbon. I do it because it's an optimization problem and it really tickles my fancy. As you say, it's frosting. Delicious frosting that adds enjoyment to my life and additional purpose to any occasion where I have to drive.

One specific note: when I said my wife is "focused on other things while driving" -- I'm not referring to distracted driving like looking at her phone, putting on makeup, or something like that. She's just focused on driving and doesn't really get a kick out of optimizing the FE. She's not really interested in creating a perfect scenario with no cars around so she can P&G to her heart's content. That's my bag, not hers.

Thread title is the biggest assumption. We can go through each choice of word, not just sentence construction.

1). What’s the savings of yours versus hers per annum, per mile? The percentage you save? .04-cpm? Where are your records? The annual fuel budget? Interpolation answers your implied question (I’m better, so . . , )

2). Professional driver training — in a nutshell — is never allowing another vehicle to be ahead, aft or athwart. Entering a highway far back from others; coming to a full stop where a great amount of road surface is evident; never assuming an intersection or blind curve is “safe”. Etc. I literally see no one pay attention any more. The rarity is the surprise. Once or twice per 100k annual miles.

3). Your wife may be taxed by the ordinary, but it’s the habits that are telling. Tire & brake wear are that proof.

4). Space, and awareness. FE falls into place, then.

And, how many places have you lived these past twenty years? (asked rhetorically). Most folks do pretty well in a familiar environment. Changes aren’t to the good, normally.

90% of the same places 90% of the time, is the average. Trip combinations to the minimum required is the only real FE change past zero idle time.

Lack of moving violations or accidents is fine. But it’s a negative indicator, tells little. Not a positive. Vehicle component wear is that measure on an annual basis.

5). What’s the cold start count per week at your house? That’s what you want to track by month.

“Sharing” only means you either want her to drive more as you do (which I doubt leaves safety in first place), or you just lack the record-keeping & testing that reveals the CPM fuel savings (against increased rate of wear). P&G is a bad joke, right?

Not before, or now, does anything your wife do affect your investigation. It’s only the percentage of miles against engine run time that differs.

The savings AREN’T between drivers, per se (past a standard of allowable vehicle use, and a standard of safety while underway).

Your answer is:

Track average MPH. Against number of engine starts (any type).

— Your assumption of “optimization” has to pass the smell test. Statistically-valid safe practice at the wheel, first.

— Second, it won’t be other than a MPH Average, as a difference (after other factors satisfied).

.

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2004.0 DODGE Ram QC/LB 2500 2WD/NV-5600 305/555 ISB. 7,940-lb. Stock. 200,000 miles/5000-hrs @ 40-mph average.
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11-cpm solo & 19-cpm towing; 21-mpg average past 54k-miles
Sold: 1983 Silver Streak 3411

Last edited by slowmover; 10-16-2019 at 01:34 PM..
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