Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-03-2014, 09:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,548
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,622 Times in 1,447 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
Think BACK in time before the advent of 'power' brakes...when people had to use just their leg pressure pressing the brake pedal...and they stopped.
I don't even remember which was the last car to be available brand-new in my country without a vacuum booster fitted to the brakes, but it doesn't really sound so bad at all. I have already driven a few cars with this system and it didn't bother me.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 05-03-2014, 10:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 2,643
Thanks: 1,502
Thanked 279 Times in 229 Posts
Considering the quality of vehicles in the time frame, I think its not a direct cause/effect relationship. Too many factors, too few victims.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big time View Post
For the GM recall scandal 13 people were killed so far.
There is no data on people killed in other car makes or other non ignition switch related failures.

I'm pretty sure large airplanes have a backup system to move the aero control surfaces, even if the engines stop running.
BTW large airplanes are supposed to be engineered to be a safe as known possible.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2014, 11:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Posts: 2,173
Thanks: 1,739
Thanked 589 Times in 401 Posts
When the ignition cuts out, you have enough vacuum in the brake booster for two or three stops. And if you're moving, you still have steering. Heavy steering, but it's still there.

Electric steering and brake boosters will give you steering and brake assist even if the engine goes off. But if the electronics turn off, as they did with the GM ignition switch issue, then the assists go off, too.

If it's simply an engine problem, as when the engine conks out while driving but you keep it in gear, current systems are adequate.

If you want ultimate redundancy, then you want an extra vacuum pump and reservoir running off a separate motor or being generated through some sort of regenerative braking system.

Last edited by niky; 05-03-2014 at 11:37 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to niky For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (05-04-2014)
Old 05-03-2014, 11:46 PM   #14 (permalink)
XYZ
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: nowhere
Posts: 533
Thanks: 31
Thanked 86 Times in 69 Posts
Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to XYZ For This Useful Post:
chumly (05-04-2014)
Old 05-04-2014, 12:05 AM   #15 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,024 Times in 1,304 Posts
It's power ASSISTED steering and power ASSISTED brakes. Air bags are a SUPPLEMENTAL restraint system.

It's a law suit where GM is accused of negligence in trying to save money on one part.
How many of the 5000 odd parts in a car do you think they are trying to save money on?

Answer
5000.

What became of Toyota's accelerator pedal issue, where people died or supposedly died due to defective parts. I'm not saying they did or didn't, but there is a huge difference between me CLAIMING you are negligent and me proving that accusation.

How about the pot metal dash knobs in Corvairs that punched a hole in your skull.
Windshields that decapitated you.
Firestone tires.
Volkswagen steering (spearing) shafts.

Think of it as another govt subsidy for the attorneys. Of the attorneys, by the attorneys, for the attorneys.

Time for another constitutional convention. Oh that's right, the first Constitutional Convention. If you get killed driving down the road reading this post, just sue me.

regards to those who don't
Mech
  Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to user removed For This Useful Post:
chumly (05-04-2014), ecoTex (05-05-2014), fusion210 (05-04-2014), jamesqf (05-07-2014)
Old 05-04-2014, 02:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
I don't agree with the "necessity" of putting power steering and brakes on little vehicles in the first place, but somewhere along the line marketers and/or consumers decided those were value-added features. I'd be happier if none of that **** was on my car.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 03:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,390

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,187
Thanked 4,378 Times in 3,353 Posts
There is a time and a place for punitive lawsuits; this is not one of those times.

As others have said, when the assisted portion of the brakes or steering fail, you still have mechanical means of maintaining control of the vehicle.

Lets say we make it a law that all cars must have an additional electric backup system for brakes and steering. Suppose manufacturers were able to implement both for the unbelievably low price of $100. That would mean every one of the 15.6 million new cars sold every year in the U.S. would cost $100 more. That's $1,560,000,000. Spread that out over the 13 people that supposedly died due to the lack of backup systems, and that amounts to $120,000,000 per person. It's simply not worth it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big time View Post
I'm pretty sure large airplanes have a backup system to move the aero control surfaces, even if the engines stop running.
BTW large airplanes are supposed to be engineered to be a safe as known possible.
Large aircraft have multiple backup systems to maintain power and flight control. Many have 3 separate hydraulic systems to move the control surfaces. Power for the hydraulics is primarily run from the main engines, but can be run from the auxiliary power unit (APU) which is also a turbine run on jet fuel. As a last resort, the ram air turbine (RAT) can be deployed to provide minimal electronics and hydraulics.



Even with all of this, planes are not built to be as safe as possible. They are built to be as safe as economically possible, which means there are many things that could be done to make them safer if cost weren't an issue.

Interestingly, 85% of all plane crashes can be attributed to pilot error. I suspect there is a similar statistic for motorists. If people are concerned for their safety, they should train themselves to be safe.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!

Last edited by redpoint5; 05-04-2014 at 03:38 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
ecoTex (05-05-2014), Fat Charlie (05-05-2014)
Old 05-04-2014, 08:13 AM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 263

Winsight - '06 Honda Insight
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 72.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 244
Thanked 86 Times in 61 Posts
Like Old Mechanic says, they are power ASSIST. It's all still there, in unassisted form. Which to me has not been a big deal.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 10:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
Only 3% or 4% of crashes are aused by mechanical failure.
I don't know if that includes tire failure.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2014, 11:04 AM   #20 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 54
Thanks: 1
Thanked 13 Times in 10 Posts
I thought part of the problem was the steering wheel would lock also when the key was switched off.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com