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Old 05-03-2014, 09:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
Think BACK in time before the advent of 'power' brakes...when people had to use just their leg pressure pressing the brake pedal...and they stopped.
I don't even remember which was the last car to be available brand-new in my country without a vacuum booster fitted to the brakes, but it doesn't really sound so bad at all. I have already driven a few cars with this system and it didn't bother me.

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Old 05-03-2014, 10:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Considering the quality of vehicles in the time frame, I think its not a direct cause/effect relationship. Too many factors, too few victims.

Originally Posted by Big time View Post
For the GM recall scandal 13 people were killed so far.
There is no data on people killed in other car makes or other non ignition switch related failures.

I'm pretty sure large airplanes have a backup system to move the aero control surfaces, even if the engines stop running.
BTW large airplanes are supposed to be engineered to be a safe as known possible.
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Old 05-03-2014, 11:31 PM   #13 (permalink)
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When the ignition cuts out, you have enough vacuum in the brake booster for two or three stops. And if you're moving, you still have steering. Heavy steering, but it's still there.

Electric steering and brake boosters will give you steering and brake assist even if the engine goes off. But if the electronics turn off, as they did with the GM ignition switch issue, then the assists go off, too.

If it's simply an engine problem, as when the engine conks out while driving but you keep it in gear, current systems are adequate.

If you want ultimate redundancy, then you want an extra vacuum pump and reservoir running off a separate motor or being generated through some sort of regenerative braking system.

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Old 05-03-2014, 11:46 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Laws, like sausages, cease to inspire respect in proportion as we know how they are made.
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Old 05-04-2014, 12:05 AM   #15 (permalink)
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It's power ASSISTED steering and power ASSISTED brakes. Air bags are a SUPPLEMENTAL restraint system.

It's a law suit where GM is accused of negligence in trying to save money on one part.
How many of the 5000 odd parts in a car do you think they are trying to save money on?


What became of Toyota's accelerator pedal issue, where people died or supposedly died due to defective parts. I'm not saying they did or didn't, but there is a huge difference between me CLAIMING you are negligent and me proving that accusation.

How about the pot metal dash knobs in Corvairs that punched a hole in your skull.
Windshields that decapitated you.
Firestone tires.
Volkswagen steering (spearing) shafts.

Think of it as another govt subsidy for the attorneys. Of the attorneys, by the attorneys, for the attorneys.

Time for another constitutional convention. Oh that's right, the first Constitutional Convention. If you get killed driving down the road reading this post, just sue me.

regards to those who don't
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Old 05-04-2014, 02:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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I don't agree with the "necessity" of putting power steering and brakes on little vehicles in the first place, but somewhere along the line marketers and/or consumers decided those were value-added features. I'd be happier if none of that **** was on my car.

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Old 05-04-2014, 03:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
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There is a time and a place for punitive lawsuits; this is not one of those times.

As others have said, when the assisted portion of the brakes or steering fail, you still have mechanical means of maintaining control of the vehicle.

Lets say we make it a law that all cars must have an additional electric backup system for brakes and steering. Suppose manufacturers were able to implement both for the unbelievably low price of $100. That would mean every one of the 15.6 million new cars sold every year in the U.S. would cost $100 more. That's $1,560,000,000. Spread that out over the 13 people that supposedly died due to the lack of backup systems, and that amounts to $120,000,000 per person. It's simply not worth it.

Originally Posted by Big time View Post
I'm pretty sure large airplanes have a backup system to move the aero control surfaces, even if the engines stop running.
BTW large airplanes are supposed to be engineered to be a safe as known possible.
Large aircraft have multiple backup systems to maintain power and flight control. Many have 3 separate hydraulic systems to move the control surfaces. Power for the hydraulics is primarily run from the main engines, but can be run from the auxiliary power unit (APU) which is also a turbine run on jet fuel. As a last resort, the ram air turbine (RAT) can be deployed to provide minimal electronics and hydraulics.

Even with all of this, planes are not built to be as safe as possible. They are built to be as safe as economically possible, which means there are many things that could be done to make them safer if cost weren't an issue.

Interestingly, 85% of all plane crashes can be attributed to pilot error. I suspect there is a similar statistic for motorists. If people are concerned for their safety, they should train themselves to be safe.
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Give me absolute safety, or give me death!

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Old 05-04-2014, 08:13 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Like Old Mechanic says, they are power ASSIST. It's all still there, in unassisted form. Which to me has not been a big deal.
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Old 05-04-2014, 10:21 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Only 3% or 4% of crashes are aused by mechanical failure.
I don't know if that includes tire failure.
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Old 05-04-2014, 11:04 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I thought part of the problem was the steering wheel would lock also when the key was switched off.

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