Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 12-05-2013, 02:08 PM   #21 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,563

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,515
Thanked 3,332 Times in 2,102 Posts
snerodynamics

I know how much you guys love snerodynamics...




__________________


  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Frank Lee For This Useful Post:
aerohead (12-11-2013), Cd (12-05-2013)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 12-05-2013, 04:44 PM   #22 (permalink)
Cd
Ultimate Fail
 
Cd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Austin,Texas
Posts: 3,033
Thanks: 2,258
Thanked 756 Times in 439 Posts
snerodynamics

Frank you are full of it today
__________________
"You don't fail until you give up. You learn, and move on." - Christ

" Hypermiling is not going slow, it's driving with more intelligence." - UFO
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2013, 05:17 PM   #23 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,927
Thanks: 877
Thanked 2,018 Times in 1,302 Posts
No wonder the Finns are such great ice racers!!!!

regards
Mech
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2013, 05:27 PM   #24 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,563

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,515
Thanked 3,332 Times in 2,102 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cd View Post
snerodynamics

Frank you are full of it today
Just today?
__________________


  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank Lee For This Useful Post:
aerohead (11-24-2018)
Old 12-06-2013, 03:22 PM   #25 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 560
Thanks: 1
Thanked 67 Times in 53 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
I know how much you guys love snerodynamics...



This is exactly why I asked in another thread about optimum nose shape.

Mother Nature tells us with her snowscapes that nose shapes count. It would be wonderful if somebody could extract coordinates for these shapes.

Also, for shape modification around windshield wipers, mirror stalks, door handles, etc., you could use Great Stuff expanding foam to pretty much duplicate the snow sculpture. Protect the car surfaces with Saran Wrap, slather on Great Stuff, and squeege and/or sand the foam to match the snow shape. Test.

If you build, say, a 1/4 scale model and had powder snow available, you could mount the model on a turntable with a weathervane tail, set it outside in a snowstorm, and study the results. The turntable/weathervane would keep the model facing into the wind.

BTW, in the pics above, the snow profile shape is quite similar to the leading edge of an airfoil, and also quite similar to Hucho's (page 158) "ideal" nose shape. I'd just like to see how such a nose would look in planform, i.e., from above.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Otto For This Useful Post:
aerohead (11-24-2018)
Old 12-06-2013, 03:30 PM   #26 (permalink)
Rat Racer
 
Fat Charlie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Route 16
Posts: 3,313

Al the Third, year four - '13 Honda Fit Base
Team Honda
90 day: 42.9 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,257
Thanked 1,365 Times in 879 Posts
Just keep in mind that those nose modifications are the optimal mods for those OE nose shapes, and the Kammbacks are the optimal what sticks and doesn't get blown away shapes for those bodies- not necessarily what's required to maintain attached airflow.

Beautiful shots, though.
__________________

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheepdog44 View Post
Transmission type Efficiency
Manual neutral engine off.100% @MPG <----- Fun Fact.
Manual 1:1 gear ratio .......98%
CVT belt ............................88%
Automatic .........................86%

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Fat Charlie For This Useful Post:
Cd (01-04-2014)
Old 12-08-2013, 03:07 PM   #27 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 13,555
Thanks: 3,298
Thanked 4,505 Times in 3,585 Posts
Frank Lee -- Thanks for bumping the thread. The Jalopnik article and Vekke's video are informative.

I woke up yesterday morning to what would have been perfect snow. It came down so gently it drifted half-way back into the carport. Halfway on the roof of the car, not the floor.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2013, 03:19 PM   #28 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 560
Thanks: 1
Thanked 67 Times in 53 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vekke View Post
I did today some snow testing with powder snow and got pretty good results:





Testing will continue tomorrow morning because it will propably as much next night, already 3 cm .
Vekke, first of all, thanks very much for all the research and development that you do, and for sharing with the rest of us.

Questions: How far and fast to drive with snow on the car to get best shape? In other words, if you drive too far, all the snow will be blown off, with less than optimum shape. Drive too short a distance, and not enough snow will be blown off, with less than optimum shape. So, how far and fast is just right?

And, have you considered measuring depth and coordinates of the snow shapes? For example, the roof has the deepest snow about 1/3 back from the windshield, then tapers to the rear and sides. Perhaps a grid could be made, recording the snow depth at various coordinates. Laser scan?

Maybe when you come back from a drive, spray the snow with a mist of cold water, to form a solid crust on the shape. Then make impressions. From the impressions make foam copies of the snow shape, and glue on to your Lupo. (?)
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2013, 05:41 PM   #29 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 10,261
Thanks: 15,540
Thanked 5,450 Times in 3,225 Posts
planform

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto View Post
This is exactly why I asked in another thread about optimum nose shape.

Mother Nature tells us with her snowscapes that nose shapes count. It would be wonderful if somebody could extract coordinates for these shapes.

Also, for shape modification around windshield wipers, mirror stalks, door handles, etc., you could use Great Stuff expanding foam to pretty much duplicate the snow sculpture. Protect the car surfaces with Saran Wrap, slather on Great Stuff, and squeege and/or sand the foam to match the snow shape. Test.

If you build, say, a 1/4 scale model and had powder snow available, you could mount the model on a turntable with a weathervane tail, set it outside in a snowstorm, and study the results. The turntable/weathervane would keep the model facing into the wind.

BTW, in the pics above, the snow profile shape is quite similar to the leading edge of an airfoil, and also quite similar to Hucho's (page 158) "ideal" nose shape. I'd just like to see how such a nose would look in planform, i.e., from above.
If you have Hucho's book,there should be plan views in the 'trailer' section,there should be one for Moller's VW microbus, VW's LT (Vanagon),and back in the commercial vehicle section for buses and 18-wheelers.
It's just a matter of leading edge radii along with side camber.
The caveat is the 'bulbous' (or 'Bug' as Koenig-Fachsenfeld referred to them) nose investigated by Hans G'o'tz,which has the all-around lowest drag when crosswind is factored in.
These date to 1911,with Oscar Bergman's airship car,which predated Count Marco Ricotti's Alfa Romeo 'trompe le vent.'
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
"There is no magic radius.I think you have to stay away from an obvious hard edge,and then there is quite a bit of freedom as to how much you soften it,depending on what you want it to look like and how much you can curve it without interfering with mechanical components."
David Holls,Director,Advanced Design,General Motors Corp.,1982.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Once you've got a clean front end,well over half the problem is how you handle the rear of the car." Chuck Torner,Director,Advanced Engineering,General Motors Corp.,1982.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
" the shape of a body in front of the largest cross-section has only minor influence on the total drag.The main contributions for the drag force originate from the rear part of the body." Wolf Heinrich Hucho,Director,wind tunnel operations,Volkswagen AG
__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
Gasoline Fumes (12-12-2013)
Old 12-12-2013, 03:54 PM   #30 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 13,555
Thanks: 3,298
Thanked 4,505 Times in 3,585 Posts
Quote:
"Once you've got a clean front end,well over half the problem is how you handle the rear of the car." Chuck Torner,Director,Advanced Engineering,General Motors Corp.,1982.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
" the shape of a body in front of the largest cross-section has only minor influence on the total drag.The main contributions for the drag force originate from the rear part of the body." Wolf Heinrich Hucho,Director,wind tunnel operations,Volkswagen AG
They agree on the rear, but [may] disagree on the front [, it's ambiguous].

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2006 in review: mods vs. technique. And the winner is... MetroMPG Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 16 12-10-2007 07:46 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com