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Old 06-22-2009, 05:13 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Results are in: the mighty Flea requires 60 Watts just to run (11.3v x 5.3 Amps).

That's alternator disconnected, at 880 RPM.

With the alternator connected: 89 Watts @ 2500 RPM (14.1v x 6.3 A)

Turns out I didn't need the parallel/series multimeters. None of the individual systems/components on the car draws more than 10A

Edit - I shouldn't say that - the lights on high beams are around 120 Watts.

SEE: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...olts-8908.html

Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
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Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown

has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
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Old 12-12-2009, 09:39 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I took some measurements on the Insight with an inductive ammeter. All the measurements are with the engine, and the DC-DC converter, off. 12.6V.

0.0A - key at ACC
0.4A - radio
16A - power window
6.9A - blower at "1"
8.2A - blower at "2"
12.7A - blower at "3"
13.6A - blower at "4"
7.7A - when key is first switched to ON.  Priming fuel pump, etc
4.3A - key at ON
If I wanted to take some readings with the engine on, I'd have to locate the DC/DC converter's wiring first.
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Old 08-10-2010, 12:46 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Argonne National Labs measured an Insight's 12V loads at 200-220W at cruising: http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/HV/437.pdf

page 11, fig 17.

Ergo disabling automatic background charging free up around 200W, or 300W with the fan on, or about 400W in the winter. This power will be drawn out of the main battery instead of from the crankshaft, and can be paid back when it's convenient instead of when I'm trying to lean burn.
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Old 08-10-2010, 11:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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nice topic here.
I have an alternator delete switch as well as a few other power related things.

Some of you who are measuring fuel usage with and without the alternator should keep in mind that the fuel pump will operate at lower speed when alternator-less, this means the possibility of a bit less fuel pressure. The fuel pressure may or may not drop depending on you're car's fuel system design.

My car is set up for quite a bit higher fuel pressure when it was originally designed for. Stock, it is suppose to be 45psi. I doubled that to 90psi by modifying the pressure regulator. I also installed smaller injectors to compensate for the increased fuel flow. The end result is the short and long term fuel trim's are close to zero with the modified system. As a consequence of this high pressure my fuel pump is probably pushing its limit on fuel pressure. When I turn the alternator off, I go from a bit over 15 volts to about 13 volts and over time it slowly drops down from 13 volts. I never figured out why disabling the alternator sowed a slight drop in mpg until one day I checked the fuel pressure and saw it dropped about 7 psi when I switched the alternator off. This now makes sense because my obd2 scanner shows a corresponding increase in short term fuel trim when I kill the alternator. I believe the drop in fuel pressure is made up for by slightly increasing the injector duty cycle. The net result is the same amount of fuel delivered to the engine, but my MPG gauge shows a slight drop in fuel economy with the alternator off. Since the computer calculated mpg by reading injector duty cycle, among other things, this is not surprising. the MPG gauge's computer THINKS I am using more fuel although I am not. I think the drop in the fuel economy gauge is a fake drop.

In reality when I fill up the tank and calculator my mpg by miles driven vs fuel used, it always comes out to a few increased mpg's when I disable the alternator as much as possible. Which is contrary to what my mpg gauge says... This is a fluke in the MPG gauge and mpg computer system for my car because of my fuel pump being pushed to it's limit.

I now realise that if i upgrade to a bit larger fuel pump that can more antiquity handle the high fuel pressure I am trying to run, my fuel pressure should remain the same with the alternator on, or off. And as a result my mpg gauge should start showing an increase in fuel economy when I turn the alternator off.
Some of you guys should keep this in mind because you might be calculating fuel economy by a means other then miles driven vs gallons filled at the pump. You're fuel economies could be erroneously off by more then a few percent.

As far as ampere's go. My car seems to draw twice the amount or more then most of you, even if i set my alternator voltage back down to stock. I wonder why that is. Maybe because it's a full size car and has more electrical stuff, such as everything that can be electric, is.

With the exception of my head light bulbs, brake light bulbs, and turn signal bulbs, every single other light on my car is LED based. I hand made the led conversion my self. I did not figure the headlight, brake light and turn signal bulbs are worth converting to led because it is time consuming and the brake and turn signal bulbs are only ever temporarily on. They are never predominantly on for more when 20 seconds or so, so any gains to be had by converting them are truly insignificant at best. Time consuming and pointless at the worst. I would convert the headlight's to led but I do not have the paitence to glue and solder a few hundred led's into each headlight housing. Plus the cost of that...

I might make a how to guide on diy led conversion on the cheap for you guys, one day.

All figures @ 15.5v

Brake lights: 47 watts
Running lights for all 4 corners: 6 watts (1.5 watts per corner!!)
Low beams: 131 watts
High beams: 142 watts
Ign On eng OFF: 75 watts
Eng ON: 190 watts
1 Fuel injector: 14 watts
O2 sensor heater: 12 watts
Fuel pump: 46 watts
Sub-woofer & amp @ full loudness: eight hundred fifty watts!!!
Head unit @ full loudness: 57 watts
(keep in mind the head unit and sub wattage is directly dependent on volume. At low what most would consider normal volumes my head unit takes about 20 watts, and the sub+amp takes about 100 watts, it's only when I crank them up that the watts consumed goes through the roof, and my headlights dim considerably even with my alternator set to 15.5V. To save battery power I don't even have the amp+sub powered on when I have the alternator disabled.) Same holds true for the a/c

Air conditioning watts: you don't want to know :/

I used a 10 amp shunt type amp meter for 9 amp or lower loads.
90 amp shunt type amp meter for 10 amp to 80ish-amp loads.
200 amp shunt bla bla for bla bla

I didnt bother with testing the starter. I do not EOC because its difficult with a manumatic and i tend to leave the engine running ruring red lights, fuel refills, quick run ins to a store (less then 1 minute). I know this hurts gas mileage, but I would personally rather sacrifice a few miles per gallon compared to the greatly increased wear that you EOC people are expierencing on you're starters AND the flywheels or flex plates. Anyone ever change out a flywheel or flex plate? Even if I completely disregard the cost of a starter and a flywheel or flex plate, lets say the replacment is free so the only thing you have to spend is time changing them. ITs a major P.I.T.A to change those items out and not worth the few mpg's to me. ymmv.. good luck and my hat off to those of you who EOC. I just can't bring myself to do that to my car.
I have been messing with injector off decelerating to stop signs, lights, etc, keeping the engine spinning, though.
96 stratus "es" v6 auto-stick
supplementary propane injection
injector kill switch, alternator kill switch
Charging system voltage increased to 15.5V
secondary and tertiary 12v batteries in the trunk
on-board battery charger
lights converted to led's
potentiometer controlled tps for ign timing
welded straight pipe in place of cat-cons
removed egr
3 inch body drop
90psi fuel rail & -50% low volume injectors
run 15% diesel 85% gas

Last edited by C3H8; 08-10-2010 at 12:39 PM..
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Old 08-10-2010, 02:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Daox, my testing from years past has shown that the ignition system (modules, pickups, and sometimes coils) is the major draw when the key is forward but the engine is off.
Some newer vehicles will also energize other things like CCP solenoid, MAF circuit & burn-off cycle, AIR diverter solenoid, AIR (electric) pump, O2 sensor heaters, and IAC stepper motor cycle just to name a few.

From what I have seen, the O2 heaters and ignition system are the largest drawers with key on/engine off. Yours may be different, but it's worth checking into.

C3H8, There are a couple of products out there used by racers to provide a stable regulated voltage to accessories like the fuel pump. I have used the Jacobs Accuvolt, and friends of mine have used KB boost-a-pump.

The Accuvolt works great, but it isn't very efficient. It steps up the voltage, then regulates it down to whatever you set it at. It has its own internal losses. Good for racing, but probably not so good for FE unless making up the extra electrical power isn't costing you more fuel.

I can't tell you exactly how the KB unit works. You might be able to supply a constant 12.0 volts to your fuel pump (alternator on or off) without incurring much electrical loss through the unit itself. Obviously supplying a voltage higher than battery voltage while the alternator is off would require more input power.

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