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Old 06-28-2009, 08:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:05 AM   #12 (permalink)
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If you always start in second gear you will wear the clutch out faster. You also run the risk of glazing the clutch and causing chatter.

First gear is not a useless gear at all. Put 800lbs of load in the car and it becomes a necessity. Starting uphill, pulling out into traffic etc first gear is needed. Part of the reason that a saturn can start in second gear is low end torque and lightweight 2350lbs. 114lbs peak at 2400rpms for 1.9l car thats very low rpm.


Also it may not be a tranny issue at all. Its very possible that the clutch master cylinder or transmission slave cylinder is failing and causing the clutch to not be fully disengaged. From what I've read you replace both together anyway. It could also be a lousy shift cable.

IMO, the stock shifter cable of a Saturn S car is awful. They're notchy, spongy, indirect feeling, and somewhat delicate. Bang a shift too hard will move the cables slightly and make it stiff to shift. Otherwise there fine cars.
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:47 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm old and when I was young I had a '46 dodge pickup with 4 speed transmission and no synchros. All shifting was done by double clutching and I still do that with transmissions that are hard shifting.
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:56 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I did some experiments on this at uni and we found starting in second could save the box AND clutch on everything except hill starts. a 12-1400rpm get-a-way from stand still could be down as quickly in our three test (1.0l Pug 106, 2L mondeo sedan, 3.2 V6 Opel Omega) vehichles in second as it could in first AND there was no extra gear change to second required as you would if you'd set off in first(reducing short exposure c/glaze risk)
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Old 07-01-2009, 05:55 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oval_Overload View Post
I never thought of using the downshift syncros. Sounds like a great idea, Vinny.

And as for Christ's comment on first gear in S-Series'...
Maybe it is just a leftover from the dark days of throttle-body injection. Those old TBI single cam engines were among the most gutless the world has ever seen. On the flip-side, the MPFI dual cam engines can chirp the tires nice and loudly :P
Ive got to the point where i go N-2nd-1st every time before pulling away. No crunching so far *touches wood*. Your stuffed if the sychro on 2nd goes too though.


You want gutless?... try driving a 1.1L punto(all of 54bhp) filled to the windows, towing an (un-braked) trailer weighing at least 400kg+the 250kg trailer itself. Thats gutless...
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Old 07-02-2009, 07:48 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny1989 View Post
Ive got to the point where i go N-2nd-1st every time before pulling away. No crunching so far *touches wood*. Your stuffed if the sychro on 2nd goes too though.


You want gutless?... try driving a 1.1L punto(all of 54bhp) filled to the windows, towing an (un-braked) trailer weighing at least 400kg+the 250kg trailer itself. Thats gutless...
... You want truly gutless? I drove an 800cc Smart ForTwo Diesel with the turbo blown on a 400 series highway (the big highways around here, 4-8 lane depending on where you are).

Worse acceleration then a loaded transport truck. I basically just matted it at all times. It slowed to 30 MPH up hills. Stock is 40 HP. I'd estimate without the turbo i was driving with somewhere around 15 HP. Took a lot of intestinal fortitude to drive it to the dealer to get it fixed!
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Old 07-02-2009, 07:57 AM   #17 (permalink)
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didn't think you guys were getting the diesel??
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:12 AM   #18 (permalink)
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didn't think you guys were getting the diesel??
We used to get it. For 2005-2006 we only got the diesel. For 2008-2009 we only got the 70 hp 1.0 Mitsu engine.

I wish they'd bring over the new 45 HP diesel. I'd buy one like this *snaps*.
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:40 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Ladies and gentlemen, I am know the proud owner of a very red Saturn SC1 5-speed *w00t* As it turns out, there isn't a thing wrong with the transmission. Sam just didn't know that first gear on MP2/3 transmissions is locked out unless you have the clutch depressed absolutely as far as it will go. My friend's SL2 has the same lockout on it.

Now I've got to master the Stick ;-)
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Old 07-04-2009, 04:57 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oval_Overload View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, I am know the proud owner of a very red Saturn SC1 5-speed *w00t* As it turns out, there isn't a thing wrong with the transmission. Sam just didn't know that first gear on MP2/3 transmissions is locked out unless you have the clutch depressed absolutely as far as it will go. My friend's SL2 has the same lockout on it.

Now I've got to master the Stick ;-)
You'll pick it up fast, Don't worry. Just don't drive during rush-hour downtown till your confidence is there.

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