Thoughts about my move to New Zealand

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Some of the darker side that I've seen:
- There seems to be much more of a culture of "making do" than I'm accustomed to. I respect it, but it's a surprise coming from the US, where most anything worn or damaged is simply replaced. It doesn't even seem to be about the money, typically.

My grandparents were depression era kids and my mom was brought up by German farmers.

The US is loosing the idea of using everything until it’s completely non-repairable but in some areas there are still people who never replace anything.

My mom reuses bags and has never bought an empty plastic container has her fruit jars.

We had our 82 diesel suburban 438,000 miles, my folks lived in the same home their entire lives and grew most of the food I ate as a kid due to extreme poverty from my fathers broken back

I’ve always been someone who avoids buying things to toss and uses things until they are fully destroyed

We still exist and if any real hardship came I doubt most in this country would survive.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

The US is loosing the idea of using everything until it’s completely non-repairable but in some areas there are still people who never replace anything.

Some newer items such as home appliances seem to be made non-repairable by default, while older ones even when seemingly cheap enough to just dispose of were more repairable to different extents, from a professional repair to just a makeshift repair done at home.

my folks lived in the same home their entire lives and grew most of the food I ate as a kid due to extreme poverty from my fathers broken back

Living in an apartment it's harder for me to try growing some crops and raising livestock, but I'd be willing to try if I lived in a house instead. My grandfather had an indigenous background, so he enjoyed growing some crops not only for food but also as a hobby, and I remember eating peanuts grown by him.

[Ecky]

Reviving this thread for a year-and-a-half perspective on my move, and per JSH's request.

[Ecky]

A year and a half in, I have no desire to move back to the US. The more time I spend overseas, the more I feel I'm getting a far better deal here. If I could sum it up, it would be that I feel like I'm on vacation basically every day, even those days I'm at work.

JSH asked how you move to New Zealand. My impression is that New Zealand, similar to many other Western countries, has an immigration system that discriminates in favor of educated, young, English-speaking immigrants - which is not to say there aren't other ways in.

My general path here was (from the visa perspective): Visitor -> Worker -> Resident (where I am now) -> Permanent resident -> Citizen

You can see a list of New Zealand visas here: https://www.immigration.govt.nz/new-zealand-visas

A few paths I'm aware of include:
Working holiday - if you're 30 or under, you can get an open work visa and come for two years, during which you can look for more permanent work.
Job offer - if you're offered a job from an accredited employer, making above NZ28 (~$17US)
Green list job offer - Green listed jobs take you straight to residency.
Student - after studying, you have the opportunity to work here.
Entrepreneur - start a business and be self-employed here for at least 6 months.
Investor - bring ~10 million US and invest it into the economy, or ~600,00 if you have a child who is a resident here.
Have family here - and have them sponsor you.

Overall, it looks like it isn't the easiest place to simply buy into and retire. For someone elderly, their best chance is to be sponsored by someone locally. On the other hand, I understand it's far easier to get into NZ at any level than it is to get into the US. A dentist might, for example, wait 10+ years to be allowed the opportunity to take a job offer in the US.

[freebeard]

Said dentist would be trampled by the elephant in the room.

[Ecky]

Some fun country-comparison statistics, all in US dollars:

Big Mac Index - the USA is #7 at $5.58. New Zealand is #14 at $5.04. (indicates cost of living)

GDP per capita - The USA is #7 at ~$70,000. NZ is #22 at ~$48,000.

Average individual income - USA $65,400 , NZ $61,000usd

Median individual income - USA $31,000, NZ $38,500

Average individual wealth - USA $551,000, NZ $389,000

Median individual wealth - USA $107,000, NZ $193,000

Average Paid Vacation days - USA 11, NZ legal minimum 20 (can't find average but it's higher)

Average Sick Days - USA 8, NZ legal minimum 10

Public Holidays - USA 6, NZ 11 (legally required)

Ease of doing business index - USA #6, NZ #1 - New Zealand has 3x as many (per capita) business owners.

Corruption Index (perceived) - USA #24, NZ #2 (down from #1)

Life Expectancy - USA 77.28 years, NZ 82.06 years

Crime Rate Index - USA 47.71, NZ 42.88 (lower is better)

Average individual healthcare expenditure - USA $12,900, NZ ~$1,250

Average commute distance - USA 41 miles, NZ 14 miles

Average car insurance cost - USA $2150 PA, NZ $480 (optional)

Average fuel cost per gallon - USA $3.50 gas $4.25 diesel, NZ $5.40 gas $4.50 diesel

Average electricity cost - USA 23c/kwh, NZ 18.5c/kwh

Average food cost per month - USA $415.50, NZ $181.25

Average used car cost - USA $28,100, NZ $7,875

Current unemployment rate - USA 3.9%, NZ 3.6%

Percent immigrants - USA 13.6, NZ >23%

Overall workforce participation rate - USA 62.7%, NZ 71.8%

Child Poverty Rate - USA 16%, NZ 12% (but calculated differently)
-Note, all parents get a stipend, and all dental care up to age 18 is covered under the national system

Maternity Leave - USA 0 required, NZ 26 weeks paid either parent (or split)

~

Income tax rate:

USA federal tax brackets including SS and medicare:
17.65% up to 11k
19.65% up to 44k
29.65% up to 95k
31.65% up to 180k
39.65% up to 231k
42.65% up to 578k
44.65% 578k+

Including Oregon (as an example) state income tax, in a simplified form (the brackets don't line up with federal):

24.4% up to 11k (effective rate is less)
28.4% up to 44k
38.4% up to 95k
41.55% up to 180k
49.55% up to 231k
52.55% up to 578k
54.55% 578k+


NZ tax brackets:
10.5% up to ~$10k USD
17.5% up to ~33.5k USD
30% up to ~49k USD
33% up to ~115k USD
39% over ~115k USD

EDIT: Now, I'm aware that very few Americans actually pay taxes in the amounts prescribed by their brackets, but the effective tax burden is still higher.

[freebeard]

Corruption Index (perceived) - USA #24, NZ #2 (down from #1)

Is dropping to #2 good or bad?

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Is dropping to #2 good or bad?

It appears Denmark improved, rather than New Zealand regressing.

These aren't cherry-picked stats though, so they're not intended to just show this place in a better light.

[freebeard]

So second least corrupt. That's good.

Average electricity cost - USA 23c/kwh, NZ 18.5c/kwh

I just checked, I pay 6.04 cents per kilowatt-hour. But my thousand dollar beater needs a thousand dollars of work.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by freebeard

I just checked, I pay 6.04 cents per kilowatt-hour. But my thousand dollar beater needs a thousand dollars of work.

Average in the US is $0.16/kWh, so that fact is wrong. I accept most of the others though, unless someone wants to bring evidence to make me doubt it.