thoughts on Crower 6-stroke?

[wumpus]

Notes about compounding turbos/steam turbines:

I've wondered if a 6-stroke engine could be reasonably used as a turbine by combining the output of the diesel exhaust (preferably after a turbo) with the steam exhaust. The combined output could be fed into a steam turbine that could be going a reasonable factor of the engine speed (if not 1/1).

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by wumpus

It should be noted that when something goes wrong, management will always blame the least safe design first. You have to have absolute iron-clad proof it wasn't you, then they check the next most risky design. You can't expect to make a career of coming up with unique solutions. You can't really expect to do it very often. Last I hear, Detriot was looking to axe plenty of white collar jobs...

I agree with that.

Very few on the business end want to take the time to figure out why, just blame folks instead of try to make the solution workable.

[FX Flyboy]

Originally Posted by FX Flyboy

I can see the major issue to be overcome in form of water condensation in oil and causing lubrication problems. Since it would be going straight into the sump in most car applications, isn't there a some sort of filter element in place, like a brass (is it brass?) water repellant screen before it goes into the pump? I know this is used in motorcycle fuel tanks, but this obviously is a different set of conditons.

I've also heard of full-seal piston rings, would they help solving it at all?

I've found something that might be helpful at solving the water vapour issue. It's a mod part for aircraft engines. You can find it here.

I know an aerobatic pilot who flies a CAP 232. There is a tubing that goes through the length of the fuselage starting at the breather and ending beneath the tail. She needs to put a bottle or a bucket on it not to foul the hangar floor after each flight.

This thing is designed to capture the oil and return it to the crancase, but as a side job it gets rid of any moisture there is. It only needs a short warm up just like any engine part.

It seems that every four stroke ICE has that issue anyway, therefore this has a chance to be The solution.

But this is only an unchecked, untested idea, so don't quote me please.

[Ptero]

DIY water injection
Water Injection By Robert Mann

[Allch Chcar]

Originally Posted by Ptero

DIY water injection
Water Injection By Robert Mann

Bogus, he's quoting figures through his ears. That's my first instinct.

The Sterling is TOO HEAVY! If you used 1500lbs of batteries in your electric car you wouldn't need the Sterling! Let it die already! plox and many thanks.

Second instinct, water injection is better for engines that operated at higher temperatures and need the cooling. The FE is minimal at low throttle and low temp where we need it.

Third, "The only known major hazard is condensation of water in the oil." He doesn't solve that problem. Two of our vehicles have leaking head gaskets, sure they run but it's not a condition to strive for and it's only temporary.

And if you mention the sterling again I will tell you really bad jokes. Bad as in not funny. Eg, 7000 rpm..."WHEE FUEL ECONOMY!" *boom!* "oh."

[MazdaMatt]

This thread was dead for 5 months...

[Christ]

... and just like that, "Resurrection!"

My only comment on the whole situation:

IF the temps can be kept low enough, using a lean-burn GDI type engine (at around 40:1 or less), and still be able to utilize water injection, either in a 6-stroke or still using the 4-stroke design, how about using self-lubricating bearing surfaces? (IOW - low temps = OK to use Delrin/Nylon/Moly/other materials that don't require oil.)

This way, you get the compound effect, and you can stop worrying about oil and water mixing...

Also - a dry sump system with a water separator wouldn't help?

[Allch Chcar]

It's better than creating a new thread. The discussion isn't over. And Mazdamatt, you should have just sent me a PM instead of posting.

And @Christ, you remind me of the whole oxygen sensor in the exhaust problem. How would the ECU handle the steam in the exhaust. So long as it was steam, I'd think the sensor wouldn't register the oxygen content. But I still don't understand if steam affects "Lambda."

A side note, Hydrogen injection increases FE by as much as 25%, something to do with changing the burn characteristics, but storage tanks are still a problem. Getting hydrogen is easy with electrolysis, efficiently generating hydrogen takes a bit more.

Low temp materials as in coating the combustion chamber? It might work and only might if the only time the engine ran without injecting water was during colder weather where water froze and the cooling was unnecessary and when idling or start ups keep the operating temperature low enough to keep the material in ideal conditions.

Removing water from oil would invariable mean providing an escape route for the water which should get hot enough to convert to steam. Dry sump that seperates water? Do you have an example?

[Christ]

Dry sump with a water filter is simple... air tools.

Except instead of using an air dryer (to separate water from/add oil to the air), you use a water/oil separator inline with a dry sump's pump/filter system. Water separation in a dry sump system could occur inside the holding tank, actually, since water will sink to the bottom of the tank.

A means for either recovering or disposing that water would need to be worked out, beyond simply draining the water from the oil.

[Allch Chcar]

Draining the water at that point could create a future oil leak point if the system failed. Recycling it back into the water tank might lead to burning oil, but that's probably safer than allowing the removed water to drip and it'd be easier to troubleshoot should you ever start burning oil. It would only need to pump water into the water tank when it reaches a certain point, automating that process sounds do-able. Shutting that outlet down when not needed or using a one way valve cuts down on any possible other issues.

I think we're talking about a system that has use outside of allowing us to inject water into the combustion chamber. Maybe there is already one being used in such an application. I'm still not sure of how your system work either. Dry sumps are outside my range of understanding right now.