Towing with efficiency

[stillsearching]

It's easy to get mileage if all you have to move around is a couple of people, but people who actually have to haul heavy or bulky things can have alot more difficulty. In general as weight goes up so does efficiency - a semi tractor gets maybe 5mpg, but when it moves 40,000 pounds that's better than a Geo Metro towing 1000lbs and making 40 trips by a long shot.


I'm trying to find places related to the above, which don't really seem to fit into conventional towing boards, and don't really fit into conventional economy boards. :P Examples of topics:
- modifications to let smaller vehicles do heavier towing SAFELY, for instance I would love to beef up a miniature pickup to do a job more suited to what a 3/4 ton normally does. I've also seen custom CAD designed weight distributing hitches allowing a specific compact car to safely move 3500lb trailers in the mountains. Because the normal advice is "get a full size pickup" such things are not common knowledge, nor generally promoted, yet it's probably safer than full size pickups pulling multiple times their weight alot of the time.
- unconventional tow vehicles that either due to careful selection or special construction can tow beyond what others in their class are able to move. An example could be like the 1980's El Camino with the aerodynamics of a car (albeit boxy) yet a full frame and towing ability beyond FWD vehicles, plus in some cases a factory diesel engine exceeding 30mpg unladen.
- general strategies for moving what may be widely varying weights or loads, for instance off grid homes or small farms where periodic heavy loads like multiple cords of firewood or bags of cement are common enough to make rental impractical yet infrequent enough to make owning superduty diesels or big rigs impractical. You might need to tow a 5000lb farm tractor too but I don't see why this should require single digit mpg.


As an example of my own interests and needs i'm trying to plan an off grid self sufficient commune of sorts, which will regularily do the "reuse recycle" bit by taking others castoffs and making something useful with it. This is only feasible if the transport, fuel, and maintenance costs are low enough. Load sizes will vary radically from light and bulky (like reusing 4 inch thick styrofoam sheets) to heavy and dense (like scrap steel), and the total cost of the "transport infrastructure" stands in the way of making most of it work if we simply stick to "conventional" answers.

[oil pan 4]

You want a cheap ride that gets good milage look into the 6.2L diesel trucks with 2wd.
Cheap parts, cheap to take care of, they do lack power but get highway milage that rivals new hybrid trucks.

[larrybuck]

I used to have a '92 Dakota w full frame. Had 2.5 4 cyl., 5 spd. Got up to 34mpg. as long as never over 55mph. It had flush camper top, or canopy depending on your part of the countries lingo.

I would think it would be easy to build up to the level you want, as V8's were also available. Switching out spring rates, sway bars, and so on,

It WOULD be nice to have your cake, and eat it too!

Currently, I have my '85 1/2 ton 4x4 Suburban with small tires so it sets low.
It is a 6.2, and can get nearly 30mpg. if driven correctly.

I only use it .5 % of the time, as the 45-62mpg CRX is center stage.

[hoover]

I remember once seeing a mid 70's El Camino pulling a fifth wheel camper, about a 16 footer if I remember right. Must have been a custom job in the bed, but probably not too difficult. Seems like that might work for you.

[tru]

please dont try and make a little vehicle into a "capable" tow vehicle.

there is more than just grunt of an engine involved in rating tow capacities

[Ryland]

If you are going to tow more weight then the weight of the vehicle then a regular hitch behind the bumper is not going to cut it, you are going to need a goose neck that pivots above the rear axle at the very least, that way the trailer isn't controlling the vehicle, you also of course are going to need better breaks and breaks on the trailer.
Not going for the same total weight, but I have dreams of building a trailer to tow behind a bicycle or small car that can haul 1,000 pounds by having it have it's own power source and brakes as well, running in to some of the same issues.
I used to tow a trailer with my first civic vx and had good luck with it, I also put a nice dent in the side of it when I hit a patch of ice and the trailer swung around, traction and power to go was not as much of an issue as stopping was.

[stillsearching]

Originally Posted by tru

please dont try and make a little vehicle into a "capable" tow vehicle.

there is more than just grunt of an engine involved in rating tow capacities

I'm aware of that, and it depends on the vehicle, the trailer, the driver and the conditions. I should note that there are many 'common' warnings like dont tow more than the weight of your vehicle, which are obviously disregarded by semi drivers, and superduty drivers. (look on the trailering boards, people pulling 13 tons with a dodge cummins for instance is not uncommon... is it safe? Well.. in part it depends on the vehicle, trailer, driver and conditions! They haven't had accidents, and some do it for a living. The smaller vehicle's mileage vs what normally requires a semi is what makes it profitable for them.)

I'm not the only one planning to use this information but this is an example of what I already have in my info file:


An acquantance of mine regularily hauls a 3500lb trailer with a Saturn SL2 through the mountains. It's been specially modified, the guy is a CAD engineer and its a weight distributing hitch with connections all the way to the front of the vehicle. It does "emergency avoidance maneuvers" with the trailer, and braking BETTER than any SUV he's tried from the factory unmodified because he REALLY knows what he is doing. (the trailer was also specially made and modified I should add) I'm hoping to get a hitch from him and do some of the same modifications he did. He's done more than 100k trailering miles without a hitch including on icy roads and switchbacks. I know of NO other compact which can handle over 2000lbs of trailer, that normally requires a midsize car just to match that, which get worse mileage. For that matter I know of no other midsize car or small SUV that can move over 3500lbs.

An El Camino was factory rated to tow up to 5000-5500lbs stock just like RWD full frame cars of the era. (like a 96 Chevy Caprice) In that weight class, it's either a RWD full frame sedan/camino, or a small pickup - up to 6400lbs in a 2000 S10 with the 4.3 V6 (higher than all other years including new v8 pickups) though other mini/midsizes also exceed 500lbs. I'm not sure which has the better mileage, they both seat 2 roughly and neither pickup bed is 8ft long. You can swap in a 6.2 diesel in the el camino or caprice probably more easily than the minitruck due to more underhood room but both should be doable. Other diesels like the 4bt would be even more efficient if loud. The midsize pickups don't really pull any more.

Above 6500lbs up to 10,000lbs is where i'm trying to get more information basically, how feasible it is. Currently it seems pickup territory. New 1/2 tons properly outfitted do this, but not with good mileage. Old pickups were worse though, requiring a 454 seemingly to even be rated this high and typically being a 1 ton. I dont want to haul two cords of wood at 8mpg or it starts to defeat the point. (and reasons for even heavier towing is that - if I can haul 4 cords at 6mpg thats an improvement, etc) I'd love to know whether a fullsize sedan or minitruck or midsize truck could be safely modified to pull something more in this region without the loss of aero for a full size, because I assume it's mostly aero and not weight causing the loads.

Over 10,000lbs i'd like to research but due to the extra hassles (CDL, commercially licensed trailer even for private use) I fully expect to be pickup-only territory. However there are lots of people already doing this on conventional trailering forums so I don't need to research that here. So that mostly leaves the 7000-10,000lb class without a fullsize pickup being a target, if possible. :P


For reference older pickups which came with a 6.2 and similar diesels werent rated to tow over 6400lbs anyways that I can find.
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larrybuck how do you get nearly 30mpg with a 4x4 suburban?? I rarely hear better than 22mpg reported for 2wd.

[larrybuck]

Thankfully the past owner re-fitted it with manual hubs. My tires are common all season 15 inchers.

[Frank Lee]

Sounds like your CAD guy is the one to ask.

[trooper Tdiesel]

the original post, sounds like what i do on a regular bases..

pull loads that are commonly moved with 1/2 ton trucks, with a smaller auto.

granted by USA standards my auto is not the norm, its much more common to find an 80s Isuzu SUV with a gas engine that gets 16 to 22 in a 4,300lb aro-brick....

then to have a little diesel engine in the same auto from the factory.


i will not lie there's no way i can even think of keeping up with traffic with loads that are as big as the tow auto with less then 80hp

let alone the braking power i had, tell i up-graded the brake system with parts from newer Isuzu's