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Old 01-27-2010, 10:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Has anyone figured out if they can, or cannot, shift the car into neutral? I've read both.

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Old 01-27-2010, 11:34 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I still don't underdand why all cars designed to be driven on roads by the average Joe do not automatically shut off fuel injection as soon as the brake pedal is pressed regardless of the accelerator position. TDIs have been doing that forever. They even have a failsafe to deal with engine runaways resulting from turbo seal failures, when you key off there's a throttle plate closing starving the engine of air completely for 5 seconds or so.
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Old 01-27-2010, 01:30 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Hello -

Here is the video Old Mech is talking about :

Ross Video Helped Save My Life - ABC News

He knew to put it into Neutral from a previous ABC video. He did Neutral/drive switching to get to the dealer.

I also blame the software. I am a programmer, so I totally believe that this could happen. What I can't believe is that this wasn't caught in testing.

Speculation: Maybe the parts used in testing (sensors, throttle body, accelerator pedal) were downgraded in the factory.

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Old 01-27-2010, 02:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Fact is the more complicated the systems that are designed into vehicles, the greater the potential for chain reactions of failures compounding into catastrophic failures.

When these same cars get older and issues like humidity, corrosion, and electrical modifications are added to the mixture the compounding of potential failure scenarios will only get worse.

Heating and cooling of electrical components invite condensation. I saw a windshield replacement that was improperly done short out the ECU. When the car came to my shop, the engine and exhaust were completely filled with raw gasoline. The injectors were wide open, and the fuel pump was running, with the key out of the ignition switch.

When the customer told me he lost 1/4 tank of fuel overnight with the car sitting, I thought he was wrong.

He was right.

We drained the block, got the fuel out of the cylinders (liquid locked) and I stood at the tailpipe when we started the car with a fire extinguisher. It blew a lot of gas out the tailpipe when it started but it never ignited.

Seen another one jump started backwards. Fried the ECU and filled the cylinders with fuel. The kid tried to push start the car and bent 3 connecting rods.

$5000 damage from reversing the polarity on jumper cables and a higher speed push start.

The kids father, a full Colonel in the Air Force called me every name in the book when I told him what was wrong, with his son standing next to him. I called the local police and had one of the officers come to my shop and make sure I didn't rip the Father's arms off and beat him to death with them.

The kid called me the next day and admitted he had done exactly what I had described, but his POS father never bothered to apologise.

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Old 01-27-2010, 04:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
I also blame the software. I am a programmer, so I totally believe that this could happen. What I can't believe is that this wasn't caught in testing.
i agree it's software. the hardware used in all these vehicles would likely vary a little when you compare it to cars, SUVs, and trucks.

i also believe this could be missed in testing. whatever combination causes this issue, it's a fraction of the count of thousands or millions of vehicles on the road -- 8 models in all.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:32 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Do all eight models that they have stopped selling, have throttle-by-wire?

2009-2010 RAV4
2009-2010 Corolla
2009-2010 Matrix
2005-2010 Avalon
Certain 2007-2010 Camry
2010 Highlander
2007-2010 Tundra
2008-2010 Sequoia
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Old 01-27-2010, 05:31 PM   #17 (permalink)
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NeilBlanchard -

(100% speculation on my part, but ...)

I don't know about drive-by-wire, but now I am betting 100 Quatloos that this will lead to a factory in China making substandard sensors to save a yuan. This would explain the problem *not* being caught during testing. The long term test would use the "up to spec" sensor, but the factory would install the faulty sensor.

This implies to me that a 2009 Pontiac Vibe + automatic tranny (aka Toyota Matrix) will also suffer from this problem.

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Old 01-27-2010, 06:22 PM   #18 (permalink)
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This implies to me that a 2009 Pontiac Vibe + automatic tranny (aka Toyota Matrix) will also suffer from this problem.

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...exactly what I'm worried about!
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Old 01-27-2010, 06:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Old Tele man -

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
...exactly what I'm worried about!
I did a quick search at genvibe.com for you :

Generation Vibe Discussion Forums: toyota recall may affect vibes (article attached)

Which posted this article :

Pontiac Vibe owners, your car might be included in recall, too - Auto Motion : The Orange County Register
Quote:
When GM gets more details from Toyota on how many Vibes are included in the recall and how it will go about fix them, GM will alert owners about fixing the problem at Buick-GMC dealerships, Adler told Automotive News, adding that GM hasn’t received any notice from customers about sticking-accelerator issues..
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Old 01-27-2010, 07:00 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfg83 View Post
Generation Vibe Discussion Forums: toyota recall may affect vibes (article attached)

Which posted this article :

In an interview with Automotive News, GM spokesman Alan Alder said he didn’t know how many Vibes are affected, and that GM itself only found out about the recall seven minutes before Toyota notified the government.

...Adler told Automotive News, adding that GM hasn’t received any notice from customers about sticking-accelerator issues.

CarloSW2
...because there's nobody in any of the empty Pontiac Offices to answer any telephones nor to pass along anything from TOYOTA when they do call.

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