toyota sales halted (of 8 models)

[wdb]

I had an unintended acceleration event in one of my Subarus a few years ago, and that car has a cable throttle. Turned out to be a groundhog trapped under the hood; poor fella must have been hopping around like crazy under there, occasionally tramping on the accelerator for me.

I found this interesting in the NPR article:

"CTS, which relies on Toyota for 3 percent of its annual sales, supplies similar parts for Honda Motor Co., Nissan Motor Co. and Mitsubishi Motors Corp."

I think that pretty much rules out a pure mechanical fault.

[cfg83]

NeilBlanchard -

Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard

Here's a story about the possible reason for this problem:
No Easy Answer To Why Toyota Accelerators Stick : NPR
Seems the throttles made by CTS Corp (Elkhart, IN) are the ones that are failing, while the Denso made units are fine.

Yes, but I think that none of those Canadian made pedals resulted in deaths (see my above post). Toyota doesn't have a "hard" fix that gaurantees a solution, so I think there is more to this. In the article you posted, this is interesting :

Academic researchers say the rarity of sudden acceleration problems is a telling sign to the difficulty of determining what's going wrong.

This is the bane of software developers, low-frequency intermittent errors. If you can't recreate the problem in the lab, you can's solve it.

In the video with the Camry owner, he described our "self-defense" solution, aka pop it in Neutral. I wonder if fly-by-wire could ignore/disable the *act* of selecting neutral. Pure speculation on my part, but totally plausible.

Question: In an automatic, I don't think the "stick" is directly connected to the transmission. Can someone edumacate me? I am guessing "it depends".

CarloSW2

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by RobertSmalls

You know, my driver ed teacher taught us what to do in the event on unintended acceleration. Tap the gas pedal to try to free it. Failing that, shift to N, key off, coast to a safe stop.

What everyone - starting with the idiot designers at Toyota - seems to be missing is that you can't do the "key off" part because these cars have those stupid pushbuttons instead, where you have to do something non-obvious like hold down the button for three seconds to turn the engine off.

Even then, the pushbutton is not an unconditional power-off immediate stop, but (like computers these days :-() a command to the software to think about shutting down the engine. So if there happens to be a bug in that part of the software, the driver might be frantically trying to shut down the engine, but the car's ignoring the command.

[cfg83]

jamesqf -

Originally Posted by jamesqf

What everyone - starting with the idiot designers at Toyota - seems to be missing is that you can't do the "key off" part because these cars have those stupid pushbuttons instead, where you have to do something non-obvious like hold down the button for three seconds to turn the engine off.

Even then, the pushbutton is not an unconditional power-off immediate stop, but (like computers these days :-() a command to the software to think about shutting down the engine. So if there happens to be a bug in that part of the software, the driver might be frantically trying to shut down the engine, but the car's ignoring the command.

ibid. 110% agreement. I could totally see the off-button being ignored in order to "protect" the engine/tranny from that "silly driver" that is trying to shut off the car while in gear and driving along above 55 MPH.

Silly driver, Trix are for kids!

CarloSW2

[gone-ot]

...here's TOYOTA's "sticking pedal" letter to NHTSA:

http://nhthqnwws112.odi.nhtsa.dot.go...0V018-3681.pdf

[RH77]

So I returned a Ford Fusion rented this week to the local Hertz agency total. They had 2 cars up front: Cobalt, Impala. I heard that rental agencies were pulling their fleets of the effected models, but Hertz likely has the largest.

In the back lot, there were at least 7 Camrys, 3 Corollas, and maybe a 4-Runner sitting, waiting for their fate. It's a small local location -- and most of their fleet was on "hold".

I talked to the staff about what would happen (hoping a fleet of Sebrings wouldn't descend on the city). They took pictures of the pedals and submitted them to whomever. Apparently, most of them should be OK and return to service, but needed official word for liability

Personally, I liked the Fusion much better (and it was last year's model with 40K miles). The 2010 is even better.

It's true, I have praised the Camry and Corolla for their simplicity and FE in many reviews. Lately, their lack of personality (and crummy seats) have left me cringing at the proposition of spending any more time in them.

Although the recall is "Voluntary", corporations don't voluntarily ruin their rep. Toyota has become too big and started studying the techniques of "lowest common denominator" in parts sourcing. It happened with their V-6 oil sludge issues in various models a few years ago, and now, one of the biggest recalls in History has landed. Toyota and 'Reliability" may no longer be as synonymous. The stats show that Ford may catching quickly. I will have to agree.

RH77

[alohaspirit]

Toyota joke of the day


How do you kill a stupid prius driver?






Floormats

[wdb]

Toyota says it has a fix.

Toyota to Issue a Fix for Recalled Cars - NYTimes.com

Sounds like they're putting the entire blame on the pedal mechanism.

EDIT: Yep, they are. Here's another link.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100129/.../toyota_recall

The automaker blamed the problem on condensation in the pedal assembly, which includes the pedal, a curved arm that goes into the engine compartment, and springs that send the pedal back to its resting position when the driver eases up on the gas.

The condensation creates friction that can cause a delayed return of the pedal or, in rare cases, sticking, Lyons said.

Toyota said that not all of the models listed in the recall have the faulty gas pedals, which were made by CTS Corp. of Elkhart, Ind.

[luvit]

not condensation, but friction.
they're adding a metal plate to reduce friction (Fox News).
toyota January sales down 16%
ford january sales up 25%

source to fix

Toyota dealers expect to receive accelerator parts

Posted: Feb 02, 2010 6:24 PM EST
Updated: Feb 02, 2010 6:29 PM EST

(NBC) - As Toyota prepares to fix the gas pedal on more than two million recalled vehicles, Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood Tuesday said the company was too slow to act.

LaHood called Toyota "a little safety deaf" and said the government will continue to review possible defects.

It is just one of the problems fallout from the recall could cause for the company.

At Toyota dealers across the country, workers are ready to repair faulty gas pedals on more than two million recalled cars and trucks.

"We know what the problem is. We have the fix and will take great care through dealers," said Jim Lentz, president of Toyota Motor Sales in the U.S.

By the end of the week dealers will begin adding a small metal plate to the suspect gas pedals.

It's something the company says will keep them from sticking and cars from unintentionally speeding up.

But for the auto giant, it is not just the gas pedals in danger of sticking.

"The image of unintended acceleration is stuck to Toyota for awhile, it's like Velcro. It will be there for a good period of time," said auto industry analyst Jim Hall.

With U.S. sales of Toyotas down 8.7 percent in January, Toyota's executive vice president apologized for the issue saying it should have been dealt with sooner.

But skeptics wonder if the fix is enough.

And some suspect electronic sensors in the pedal may be malfunctioning as well, something Toyota says it has tested and ruled out.

"First they say it's floor mats, now they are saying it's the accelerator pedal, what the consumer must do is wait to see if it works. If it doesn't work, the consumer's life is on the line," said Clarence Ditlow with the Center for Auto Safety.

With the future of the world's largest automaker on the line as well, it seems there is a lot now riding on the repair.

Toyota already faces a number of lawsuits and some analysts say the company could be forced to severely slash earnings projections for the coming year.

Copyright 2010 NBC. All rights reserved.

[NeilBlanchard]

Video: Expert recreates Toyota sudden acceleration