Travel trailer opinions wanted

[dpero]

Originally Posted by Frank Lee

Don't ever go off road!

The rear can be a vertical cut... just sayin'.

The upper front can be "sharper", gaining interior standing room with I think no perceptible loss of aero.

Similarly, the boat-tailing of the roof and sides appears shallower than necessary, which unnecessarily cuts into headroom and floorplan room. I think the boat-tailing can start a bit later. Put it up against the aero template.

Something I'd like to see on trailers, which seems to be universally lacking (except on Airstreams) is good radii on the side-to-front and top junctions.

Actually, the ground clearance is quite similar to the Visa, but that is still low to begin with.

The only reason the rear is not vertical was an attempt to shorten it visually and help with looks.

Yeah, your right, the front could be steeper. The more research I do is telling me the same thing. Also true of what you said about radiusing the side-to-front and top junctions. I'll have to play with those ideas some more and see how things work out.

I used the aero template profile to create the shape. It actually matches quite well I thought. Now, I guess the question would be... Where would you put the peak? I chose the doorway simply for practical purposes.

[dpero]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Your design is something like what Walter Korff of Lockheed had advocated for an 18-wheeler trailer van in 1963.
He and Kamm and Fachsenfeld would have liked the rear as it embodies the 50 % frontal area cross-section and reduced wake.
I would think about some radius on all your forward and upper edges.
A foil on the tow vehicle and movable gap-fillers between 'vehicles' might allow you extra interior space in the trailer,using the tow vehicle for all the 'penetration' with the trailer in full draft behind.Hucho says there is as much as 10 % extra fuel economy right there.
If you were near a university with a modest wind tunnel you could throw some money at the grad students and let them do a scale-model study.
I have a 22-foot sailboat which will be reversed and inverted to create the body for a 5th-wheel RV trailer with full boat tail.I believe it would pull like magic.
I think yours might too!

Do you have a link to a photo of his trailer? I did some searching but couldn't find anything.

Some radiusing is in the future. Seems like the right thing to do.

I think I'm going to play with a deflector/foil on the Visa. Hopefully some gains for a simple mod.

[dpero]

Originally Posted by KamperBob

I think your concept is a promising start. I'd be happy to help you iterate on design details if you wish to proceed. It's not unrelated to ideas in my head that I may eventually pursue. So just let me know.

Cheers
KB

Sure. I'm going to give another go at the design using some of the suggestions so maybe after version 2....

[botsapper]

We review your priorities and look for the simplest solutions.
Hybrid collapsible hardwall campers solves the frontal reduction & still have usable (standing) volumes. Smaller SUV's and lower displacement vehicles could now pull larger campers. Unfortunately, Hi-Lo Trailers are going out of business and may have great deals.

http://www.campingearth.com/images/t...d-and-open.jpg
http://www.travelizmo.com/archives/t...r-interior.jpg

[dpero]

Originally Posted by slowmover

And neither of these trailers is as well built as an all aluminum trailer from earlier years. A used SILVER STREAK, AVION, STREAMLINE or even downmarket AIRSTREAM would be better. Cheaper to buy and longer lasting as well. The joke about todays square white boxes is that they are ten year trailers on a twenty year note. They don't last.

An older, truly aero trailer -- especially one with independent suspension -- is the best bet for fuel mileage and overall costs. What may need to be replaced is straightforward (appliances are generic, as is flooring, etc), and there are large -- very large -- groups of enthusiasts. No need to break trail as it's already been done.

The separation between TV and TT is too great for wings, etc. Treat each vehicle separately.

Get a PRO PRIDE hitch. There is no substitute for a sway-eliminating hitch. The best the rest can do is resist sway. Same for disc brakes on the trailer. Mile for mile, towing doubles the risk of a serious or fatal accident.

And, with that contemplated TV go read everything you can find from Andrew (Andy) Thomson of CAN AM RV in London Ontario.

RV Lifestyle - Hitch Hints & Wagon Masters

Pay special attention to tire/wheel combinations for the TV. Get good tires well matched. NOTHING will make a bigger difference except certified scale hitch rigging (assuming a PP hitch and disc brakes).

Fuel economy doesn't mean much for a traveler only moving 5k annually. It's the guys traveling 10k or more annually who benefit. Keep your speed to 58-62 mph at most. The trailers shown are about good enough to run up to the lake. In clear daylight, with no winds or semi's on the roads.

Depreciation and outrageous increasing maintenance costs make the trailer type shown a true money pit. Mpg decrease is only the icing on the cake.

Economy is the lowest cost over the most years. My folks had their aluminum trailer 27 years, and full-timed for nearly ten of those. They replaced the AC in that time. Nothing else.

I'm in the market for another aero aluminum trailer, and I keep my search confined to 1972-1990.

As to the other subjects on here, keep in mind that the tradeoff between aero and live-ability was worked out more than 50 years ago. The available power in cars, and the state of pre-Interstate highways made aero a highly viable subject. But most of the time spent with a trailer is not in driving. Today's excellent drivetrains, and the Interstate, make 15 mpg easy on a well-spec'd rig. I've seen 18 for European TD SUV's and new 25-28' Airstreams (heavy trailers).

The OP's van can tow a bigger, better trailer than the ones depicted for a lower initial cost, and, once repaired/upgraded, for a lower road cost. With FAR better handling and wind resistance (crosswinds). And an indefinite life.

Good luck

.

Time is my main consideration for buying new. Used is ok but everything I have seen needs TLC and interrior updating. That said, I am still on the watch for something used but nothing seems to fit what I have in mind design wise. A friend is selling his Avion because he thinks the large radiused upper corners are too confining.

That Pro Ride hitch... WOW! $$$

As for as fuel economy... if I can save $ on a couple fill-ups on a long trip, I think it would be worth it. Makes going on trips a little easier on the wallet.

Are Airstreams under 3500lbs? I don't believe so. That's my tow limit. I realize that's debatable but that's what it is. Another different TV isn't an option right now so I am definately compromising there.

You are definately correct, todays trailers are not as well built, even the Visa I just got. It definately has issues with quality.

[dpero]

Originally Posted by botsapper

We review your priorities and look for the simplest solutions.
Hybrid collapsible hardwall campers solves the frontal reduction & still have usable (standing) volumes. Smaller SUV's and lower displacement vehicles could now pull larger campers. Unfortunately, Hi-Lo Trailers are going out of business and may have great deals.

http://www.campingearth.com/images/t...d-and-open.jpg
http://www.travelizmo.com/archives/t...r-interior.jpg

I think your right on there but... I did look at a Trail Manor, it seemed very tent camper like to me. I wasn't impressed. Same with the Hi-Lo. They also don't have a bunkhouse floorplan which was important to me with 2 kids. They do claim very good MPG though...
TrailManor|Easy Towing|Lighweight Travel Trailer

[slowmover]

Time is my main consideration for buying new. Used is ok but everything I have seen needs TLC and interrior updating. That said, I am still on the watch for something used but nothing seems to fit what I have in mind design wise. A friend is selling his Avion because he thinks the large radiused upper corners are too confining.

I come from a family with three generations of full-timing in aero aluminum trailers over more than fifty years. None of us ever felt confined (and I am over 6'). The perspective may be different visually, but remember you spend most of your time seated while "indoors". Plus, these trailers tend to have FAR better outward visibility when seated than a square box (their structure is too weak, in general, for the same sq/ft to glass ratio).

That Pro Ride hitch... WOW! $$$

Your family is worth how much? You have how much into van and trailer? A sway eliminating hitch is much less than 10% the value of the rig, isn't it? Maybe 5%?

As for as fuel economy... if I can save $ on a couple fill-ups on a long trip, I think it would be worth it. Makes going on trips a little easier on the wallet.


Not at the expense of repairs, even DIY, if RV quality is low.


Are Airstreams under 3500lbs? I don't believe so. That's my tow limit. I realize that's debatable but that's what it is. Another different TV isn't an option right now so I am definately compromising there.


Some AS trailers are light. You are not weight-limited in the same way with an aero trailer if you'll educate yourself on the advantages. CAN AM RV in London, Ontario sets them up like was done in the 1960's. Understand that your van has not been subjected to proper testing, nor that the new J2807 standard is in any way realistic. Search for articles and posts by Andy Thomson of that firm. They've been doing this for forty years and have set of hundreds of your brand of van, and thousands of minivans to tow. Weight rating is relative to many factors. Reading will inform you of considerations.

And, yes, you can tow a heavier aero trailer than the ones shown here. You'll enjoy reading around on the subject.

You are definately correct, todays trailers are not as well built, even the Visa I just got. It definately has issues with quality.

All RV's are not as good as they ought to be.

Important that you set up the hitch rigging with a certified scale. And keep records and photographs; document everything as you may someday want a better trailer, so records of service/warranty work are better than memory and a credit card receipt.

My mother -- on our 3-4 week trips in the 1960's & '70's -- used to write away to states, societies, etc to gather information for an upcoming vacation. Books, magazines, correspondence piled up comfortably. I see vehicle maintenance the same way, it's a touchstone for comfort and confidence while on the road. A pleasant diversion most evenings. WOODALLS.NET has a decent forum. Start there with searches about your two vehicles. You can also PM me for a continuing draft I add to about towing and FE, it's essentially just notes past about page 40 but has now reached 101 pages and well above 100 links.

Much of your FE is now set in stone. Driver attention to details (details of TV and TT), plus trip planning will give you the final percentage increase for FE. Safety & FE work hand-in-hand, so it's a reassuring list.

ON the trailer, start by having a big truck shop perfect TT axle alignment. If TT does not have shock absorbers, add MONROE Retrofit kit. CENTRAMATIC Tire Balancers are also good.

If the TT has cheap no-name tires I'd consider GOODYEAR MARATHON the default choice for ST tires.

Good luck

.

[miket]

http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/in...69.cfm#4556469

http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/in...42.cfm#4707442

http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/in...3.cfm#15029773

[Frank Lee]

Alto model 1723 - By Safari Condo

[miket]

Its neat how the expensive hitches give you the sway stability of a fifth wheel trailer. The propride and hennsley connect to the trailer with a a 4 bar trapazoid link. The converging links make the trailer move around a virtual pivot point near the rear axle. The Pullrite connects underneath the vehicle and has an actual pivot at the rear axle.