Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-28-2010, 07:09 AM   #1 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
U.S. wants consumers' advice on fuel-economy stickers

The existing labels on new-car windows focus on miles per gallon, but some electric vehicles don't use any gas at all. One proposed redesign includes a prominent letter grade.

October 16, 2010|By Gregory Karp

It might not be as much fun as voting for your favorite performers on "American Idol" or "Dancing With the Stars," but the federal government wants your input on new fuel-economy labels for cars.

The sticker that consumers find on new-car windows is more than 30 years old and focuses on fuel consumption and annual fuel costs. But the miles-per-gallon information isn't an effective measure anymore because some electric models, for example, don't use any gallons of fuel at all.

So the Environmental Protection Agency and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration are looking at two label designs, both of which would provide additional information on fuel economy and emissions to help consumers compare makes and models, be they electric, plug-in hybrids, gas or diesel.

But one of the proposed redesigns has environmental groups applauding and the auto industry crying foul because only the most fuel-efficient models, regardless of vehicle category, can score well. The most controversial component of that design is a prominent letter grade ranging from A-plus to D that takes up nearly half the label and reflects the vehicle's fuel economy and tailpipe greenhouse gas emissions.

Electric vehicles that get 117 mpg or more would rate the A-plus under the proposal, while a car like Ferrari's 612 Scaglietti that gets 12 mpg would earn a D.

During a public hearing Thursday in Chicago, representatives of automakers and auto dealers agreed a new window label was necessary but said assigning a letter grade across vehicle categories would be akin to comparing apples and oranges. And the auto industry has said that a grading system is imbued with school-time memories of passing and failing. One other public hearing on the new labels is scheduled for Thursday in Los Angeles.

Letter grades "are at best of virtually no value and at worst counterproductive," said Desmond Roberts, a Chevrolet dealer in the Chicago area and an official with the National Assn. of Minority Automobile Dealers. "Seeking to evaluate and rate vehicles without attempting to hold constant attributes such as seating or hauling capacity renders such ratings meaningless."

Consumers also could confuse the letter grades with overall vehicle quality or safety, said Giedrius Ambrozaitis of the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers.

But environmental advocates contend that letter grades would be a simple evaluation system that all consumers understand.


U.S. wants consumers' advice on fuel-economy stickers - Los Angeles Times

__________________


  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-28-2010, 08:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
MPGuino Supporter
 
t vago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Hungary
Posts: 1,807

iNXS - '10 Opel Zafira 111 Anniversary

Suzi - '02 Suzuki Swift GL
Thanks: 828
Thanked 708 Times in 456 Posts
All cars burn fuel. EVs just push the carbon output back to the electric plant.

Maybe there could be a average effective range figure, and another figure expressing the usable energy storage capacity of whatever vehicle it is that's being sold.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2010, 08:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
(:
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 12,762

Blue - '93 Ford Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 Ford F150 XLT 4x4
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Ford Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 honda gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Mercury Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,585
Thanked 3,555 Times in 2,218 Posts
And that's not all...

The Prez is seeking public input to future mpg requirements. Unfortunately the deadline is REAL SOON.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rul..._of_Intent.pdf
__________________


  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Frank Lee For This Useful Post:
dcb (10-28-2010)
Old 10-28-2010, 09:38 AM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 659

Chug - '96 Volkswagon Polo CL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 49.42 mpg (US)

L'Autre - '03 Renault Megane Sport Tourer Expression
Diesel
90 day: 45.02 mpg (US)
Thanks: 20
Thanked 12 Times in 12 Posts
Can't you just put a cents/mile rating (using an ave electric rate and and ave gas price)

Sounds an awfull lot like BIGmotor is scared the general public will realise exactly who inefficient there 3 ton V8 double cab is compared to an decent sized euro wagon or....... a leaf/prius

Do you guys tax on CO2 like we do?
__________________
-----------------------------------------
good things come to those who wait, sh*t turns up pretty much instantly






twitter.com/bertchalmers
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2010, 09:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
dcb
needs more cowbell
 
dcb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ÿ
Posts: 5,038

pimp mobile - '81 suzuki gs 250 t
90 day: 96.29 mpg (US)

schnitzel - '01 Volkswagen Golf TDI
90 day: 53.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 158
Thanked 269 Times in 212 Posts
I "Get" the letter grade, but would also like to see exactly the fuel and electric (from the wall, battery returned to initial state of charge) contributions to the EPA test cycles listed separately, and not fudged. I think both is best, then you can say "this is mostly electric, or mostly gas, or half and half" with some reliability. If it just has a letter, you don't really know how efficient the different power sources are.
__________________
WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!!!
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dcb For This Useful Post:
Daox (10-28-2010), PaleMelanesian (10-28-2010)
Old 10-28-2010, 11:45 AM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 269

The Wife's Hot Rod - '09 Pontiac G8 GT
Last 3: 23.22 mpg (US)

Big Outback - '13 Subaru Outback 2.5i

Little Outback - '02 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport
Thanks: 0
Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts
If it has a liquid fueled engine it gets a city/highway mpg/gpm rating.
If it plugs into the wall it gets a city/highway Joule per mile/Mile per Joule rating.
If it does both, it gets both stickers.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to DonR For This Useful Post:
PaleMelanesian (10-28-2010)
Old 10-28-2010, 11:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 69

EcoSentra - '04 Nissan Sentra
90 day: 35.93 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 7 Times in 4 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by t vago View Post
All cars burn fuel. EVs just push the carbon output back to the electric plant.
Not if your roof is filled with PV as is the case with many EV drivers.

Not sure how the letter grade helps. Granted the overage car buyer/driver is a simpleton but when you look at the current window sticker and car A gets 20mpg and car B gets 40mpg it shouldn't take too many mental gymnastics to determine that B is twice as efficient as A.

Replacing that with a letter grade gives me less data to base the buy/don't buy decision on which make it more difficult.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2010, 12:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,190
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,525 Times in 1,126 Posts
...how about just using our familiar "letter" grade assignments?:

A = Excellent
B = Good
C = Mediocre/acceptable
D = Poor
E = Piss-poor
F = Failure

...and nothing else on the window sticker!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2010, 01:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 5,209
Thanks: 225
Thanked 811 Times in 594 Posts
What's wrong with a simple miles per KWh rating? And plug-in hybrids get both mpg and mpk ratings.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2010, 01:15 PM   #10 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: california
Posts: 1,329
Thanks: 24
Thanked 161 Times in 107 Posts
Here is some timely consumer advice: Stop wasting our tax money researching god damn stickers.

  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to tjts1 For This Useful Post:
gone-ot (10-28-2010), IsaacCarlson (11-06-2010)
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Gadgetman Groove: Latest Fuel Economy BS Hits NPR SVOboy EcoModder Blog Discussion 53 12-22-2011 12:39 AM
Using Magnets to increase milage hondo434 Off-Topic Tech 71 08-13-2010 12:48 AM
The Fun of Driving for Fuel Economy tasdrouille Hypermiling / EcoDriver's Ed 19 07-15-2010 01:07 PM
Article: Lean burn on an otherwise stock engine (testing Acura RSX K-Series engine) tjts1 EcoModding Central 4 01-07-2010 01:22 PM
Basic EcoDriving Techniques and Instrumentation SVOboy Instrumentation 2 11-17-2007 11:38 AM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com