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Old 09-30-2011, 05:27 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Firstly I would like to thank those who have responded - its easy to poke fun or suggest other influences in charge of these events. I am not bankrupt and looking for money, I want the hybrid to work and no I was not drinking on Monday - I am about to have a glass of wine now though

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Originally Posted by bwilson4web View Post
...One problem with my wife's floor mats were the hooks that anchor them were missing.
I forgot to reply to this, apologies - the mats we have are apparently "tailored" to the car, yet they also miss the floor anchor point - which is why they are in the boot/truck pending a return to the seller. Must do that this weekend. I have some unanchored rubber ones for winter, but they may stay out for now.

Update 2. A-junior is away at cub scout camp this weekend so I had to run him there. Its not far, about 20 miles or so but Mrs A allowed me to drive the Prius.

On the way there I had him in the car and it was heavy traffic over the Forth Bridge so I didn't try anything, in fact I was keeping huge gaps and my foot on or near the brake.

On the way back however it was clear and I was alone so I tried to reproduce events. I pulled into an empty country road and shut the Prius off. I also got out and locked it as I did in the shops I went to on Monday. Waited 5 mins or so, got in, started it, cruised on electric mode for a while and then stopped. Then firm acceleration followed by a lift off.

It behaved as I would expect - acceleration ended and the ICE shut off, and I could maintain speed on battery. Repeated this twice more but both times it behaved. So still puzzled as to how to reproduce.

My one other thought is that on Monday I had done this quite a few times and made a lot of use of battery so it may have been low. When we were in traffic going to the camp, the engine did start to charge the batteries because we had been cruising on them in <15 mph traffic for 20 minutes or so and it was down to 2 bars. And when I tried the above tonight it was only 1 bar off full battery (camp is at the top of a hill so it charged on the way down).

I'll see if I can get a quite hour or so to experiment more this weekend whilst A-junior is away, however Mrs A is working and as we work for the same people I get drawn into her work (sales) to answer technical questions.

And I was planning an Aygo upper grill block this weekend too.

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Old 09-30-2011, 07:25 PM   #22 (permalink)
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. . .
My one other thought is that on Monday I had done this quite a few times and made a lot of use of battery so it may have been low. When we were in traffic going to the camp, the engine did start to charge the batteries because we had been cruising on them in <15 mph traffic for 20 minutes or so and it was down to 2 bars. And when I tried the above tonight it was only 1 bar off full battery (camp is at the top of a hill so it charged on the way down).
. . .
This is new.

Your earlier description suggested a mechanical, pedal-down. But I'll see if I can replicate the low-battery condition.

Thanks,
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Old 09-30-2011, 08:35 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Arragonis -

Good write-up. Yes, wrack your brain for any detail that may be missing in your attempt to recreate. The battery level is interesting because low-bars imply (to me) different software algorithms in play.

Did you per-chance step on any butterflies? Wait, nix that, that's a time travel thing.

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Old 10-01-2011, 05:19 AM   #24 (permalink)
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This is new.

Your earlier description suggested a mechanical, pedal-down. But I'll see if I can replicate the low-battery condition.

Thanks,
Bob Wilson
Yep, when I lifted it felt like the pedal had stuck, hence I hit it to free it - still can't explain why I did that instead of the brake.

@CFG - yep, trying to think of any other factors. Last night was similar also in that it was dark so I was using lights.
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Old 10-01-2011, 03:25 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Could you give a rough time-line of the events with attention to:
  • temperature, external and cabin
  • distance / time (if off)
  • estimated speed
  • use of EV button
  • terrain features, 10m, 20m, 50m, 100m, 200m hills
I have noticed my wife's ZVW30 car maintains different traction battery charge levels depending upon speed and to some extent the terrain.

Above 73 km/h (~46 mph,) on fairly flat land, 10-20m hills and overpasses, the battery reaches the nominal ~60% charge level fairly quickly, 5 km (~3 miles.) But at slower speeds, 40 km/h (~25 mph,) it seems to let the traction battery level go to lower levels. Knowing roughly the speeds on the different segments, I can more closely approximate the original drive protocol.

We've had a cold front come in and scattered frost is in the forecast. We also live near the Piedmont plateau and close to the foothills of the Appalachian mountains. We also have Tennessee River bottom land so I suspect I can find routes and in the fall, weather conditions that somewhat approximate your drive.

SPECULATION/HYPOTHESIS

There are times when the car needs to put a charge on a traction battery that reaches some low threshold. The symptom is the engine runs when stopped instead of being off. During these times in our NHW11, MG1 (also called the generator) needs engine torque to make the charging power. When stopped, the brakes or in "P" the parking paw provides the counter torque needed to let engine power flow to MG1. At low speeds, MG2 can provide that counter torque.

There may be some subtle window at slow speed or when starting from a dead stop when the necessary MG2 torque is not available but the car needs to put a charge on the traction battery. If not balanced by MG2, the necessary torque would come from the gearing connected to the wheels. It would seem as if the car were accelerating without input from the accelerator. (NOTE: I am not ruling out anything including a mechanical 'sticky' event which is why the temperature is important.)

During the event, did the engine rpm give an impression of medium, high or very high rpm? I know this is imprecise but without a Scangauge or equivalent instrumentation . . . Did it sound like you were climbing a steep hill?

Thanks,
Bob Wilson
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Old 10-02-2011, 09:13 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwilson4web View Post
Could you give a rough time-line of the events with attention to:
  • temperature, external and cabin
  • distance / time (if off)
  • estimated speed
  • use of EV button
  • terrain features, 10m, 20m, 50m, 100m, 200m hills
...
I shall do a full statement a little later, A junior is at cub camp (see earlier post) and I have to pick him up. I'll also look at getting some Google map locations. Does anyone know if / where I can get elevation info from them ? If I can get some pics from maps I can put some times in there - but they will be rough times so nobody pick me up for speeding, ok

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During the event, did the engine rpm give an impression of medium, high or very high rpm? I know this is imprecise but without a Scangauge or equivalent instrumentation . . . Did it sound like you were climbing a steep hill?
Yep, I think its a mistake the Prius not having a rev counter - however you wouldn't normally need it would you ?

I was accelerating firmy but not racing. Probably 2/3rd throttle, then lifting off to "trick" the engine into stopping so we could cruise on electric. The acceleration made the engine sound like it was climbing a hill, maybe 3500-4500 RPM. One other detail or factor, thinking back it sounded more or less like it was continuing my acceleration - rather than adding any more - after I had lifted off.
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:26 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Hi,

I used "Google Earth" for elevations but they are able to use US Geological Charts and since the Google cars have wandered all over the place, their GPS backup data.

I ran the cursor over Dingwall and it shows up as 60-75 ft above sea level.

Bob Wilson
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Old 10-03-2011, 04:33 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I've uploaded 2 Google earth .kmz files.

File 1

File 2

Note they are .txt files as the uploader doesn't like kmz files for some reason - upload error. Rename them and it should open in google earth. Times are approx - I dropped A-junior at cub scouts at about 6-30pm and picked him up about 1hr 15 mins later. I'll post a path later if I get a chance.

Attached Files
File Type: txt Incident 1.txt (761 Bytes, 68 views)
File Type: txt Incident 2.txt (784 Bytes, 71 views)
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