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Old 03-23-2020, 02:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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A 'Cyber-XL1' in 301 stainless steel?

I found some interesting aerodynamic details here: Bell 'Invictus 360' Reconnaissance Helicopter | COMANCHE CLONE?. The fuselage has simple curves and creased edges.

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Old 03-23-2020, 04:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
I think most of the cost is from "unobtanium" materials - if they built it with steel, it would cost far less.
Even at relatively low price, I don't think it would sell. Witness the first Honda Insight which, according to the New York Times, sold just over 18,000 units globally in 7 model years. According to them:

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All right, itís a tiny two-seater without a trunk, with sometimes curious handling and indifferent comfort. It requires more trade-offs than most Americans are willing to make. Its sticker prices of $19,330 to $21,530 are high for a subcompact. And larger, more versatile hybrid cars, like the Honda Civic Hybrid and the Toyota Prius, cost little more.

...Ennui killed this electric car.
$21,530 is $28,204 today. Even made out of steel, with a conventional gas engine and/or plug-in drivetrain, and at that price point or lower, I don't think the XL1 would find many buyers. It would have the same issues as the original Insight, and the sea of potential competitors (in both car and SUV form) is even larger now.

I would say it's a shame we don't act more rationally as new car buyers, but the very idea of having a 1000+ kg car to cart around 50-150 kg of person is itself irrational most of the time.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:07 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'd buy one when it hit 15 years old.
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Old 03-25-2020, 10:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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steel

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Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
I think most of the cost is from "unobtanium" materials - if they built it with steel, it would cost far less.
Yes! They could stamp them out in massive volume, returning to their roots as a 'people's car,' without change for the next 100-years,with only incremental changes which would fit all previous years. Like the Ford Model-T or Beetle.
There's no reason the car would cost any more, per pound, than an entry level KIA/Hyundai. What a pity!
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Old 03-25-2020, 10:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Cd 0.20

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Originally Posted by Vman455 View Post
It looked like maybe 6" or 8".



Sadly, if this did reach mass production in anything close to its current form, I doubt it would find many buyers even at an economy-car price. It deviates too much from what people expect a "car" to be. This has Cd 0.189; Hucho mentioned he expects production cars to reach 0.20 "and that's it," and I'm inclined to agree with him.

That said, I would give my eye teeth to have one of these.
Hucho also says cars could achieve the drag minimum of Cd 0.09 if it were important enough to the product planning committees.TV advertising could get every driver on Earth to want one within 72-hours if they were serious. Just get rid of lobbyists and see what happens.
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Old 03-25-2020, 10:59 AM   #16 (permalink)
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rationally

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Even at relatively low price, I don't think it would sell. Witness the first Honda Insight which, according to the New York Times, sold just over 18,000 units globally in 7 model years. According to them:



$21,530 is $28,204 today. Even made out of steel, with a conventional gas engine and/or plug-in drivetrain, and at that price point or lower, I don't think the XL1 would find many buyers. It would have the same issues as the original Insight, and the sea of potential competitors (in both car and SUV form) is even larger now.

I would say it's a shame we don't act more rationally as new car buyers, but the very idea of having a 1000+ kg car to cart around 50-150 kg of person is itself irrational most of the time.
Irrational buyers is the reason it could succeed. All they need is to be held in emotion-mode, and not allowed to think at all, in order to win them over. They'll do whatever a television or computer screen tells them. The bright side of Orwell.
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Old 03-25-2020, 03:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Even though I wouldn't be so comfortable not having conventional mirrors, I could still give the XL1 a try. And eventually adapt some mirrors out of a sports motorcycle.
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Old 03-25-2020, 04:10 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Irrational buyers is the reason it could succeed.
The public is already primed for braked stainless steel.
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Old 03-26-2020, 11:28 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Browsing through my pictures from the museum, I just realized something--the XL1 uses an evolution of the Jaray two-body form that was put into production for the first time on the pre-war Tatra cars:









But, where those earlier cars use profile taper to a point on the lower body, the XL1 does not--but it does carry over the aggressive plan and profile taper of the upper body. Contrast with a shape more reminiscent of a Kammheck, like the first-generation Insight:



Or better yet, the third-generation Prius:



Kamm's idea was that more gentle taper of the full tail would create more interior volume and make for a more usable car. Jaray's more aggressively-tapered form only really worked when the engine was moved to the back. In fact, I'm struggling to think of an example of a production car using the Jaray form that wasn't rear-engine.
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Old 03-26-2020, 12:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
I'd buy one when it hit 15 years old.
Yeah, right?

Heck, I still have a G1 Insight sitting in my back yard

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