Using flywheels to increase FE

[jamesqf]

So worst case, all you need is a gimbal mount...

[theunchosen]

I have thus far been unable to locate the "video" of the bellhop getting jerked around.

The problem with finding this particular video. . .is its a GIF. I found it in another forum(that thread was devoted to creating an electrical turbo off of large saw blade, for some reason there was avilable electricity). The reason that idea also wouldn't have worked very well is because the blade would have to spin very fast and would be reasonably heavy, so turning the car would cause enormous torque on the engine, mounts and blade itself.

Any form of translation of the energy will force the flywheel to rotate one direction or another(or apply torque up or down if the axis itself is tilted). Unless the flywheel can spin freely all the time in all directions it will dissipate all of its energy very quickly trying to go the new direction.

It would be rather complicated to apply force to the wheel or recover it because the wheel if turned or tilted will begin spinning on its mounts. So instead of it resisting for a moment and then assuming the new direction it will continue to resist/accelerate until an equal translation has been completed.

One of two things has to happen to avoid the wheel losing its KE A.) the mounts have to isolate car motion and the car "rotates" around the flywheel or B.) the flywheel is allowed to rotate freely in all directions to avoid dissipating energy. If you had some very low friction bearings you could attach a generator and drag it out as electric power but it may be difficult to complete a circuit on something that rotates like a sphere with no permanent predictability.

[Nevyn]

Anything that's spinning around a fixed central axis with no load becomes a gyroscope. So, when he went to turn the suitcase, the spinning motion of the flywheel wanted to maintain its direction of travel. This, to the bellhop, caused him to let go, which then made the suitcase continue traveling on a linear path tangent to the circle with a radius equal to the curve of the turn he was trying to make.

[jamesqf]

Let's think about this a bit. First, if you want your flywheel to be at all efficient, it's going to be in a vacuum, using magnetic bearings, and the coupling is going to be an electric motor/generator. (You can look up recent research on flywheel energy storage for more details.)

So if you have the flywheel rotating in a horizontal plane, you're not going to have any flywheel torque from driving on level ground, only if you pitch up or down, or from side to side. So you mount it in gimbals (like a kid's gyroscope toy), with room to tilt, and some hydraulic dampers at the end of travel. Do this right, and it maybe even becomes a safety feature, the anti-rollover device :-)

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by NoCO2

Ok, so I saw this mentioned in the thread about the powered trailer and thought I'd start it's own thread because it's a very interesting topic and I haven't seen it covered here as of yet.

Using a large, heavy flywheel on cars to increase FE. First off, are there any manufacturers who actually make these. I know they make lighter ones for racing applications, but I would think that heavier ones would be harder to find because it's more of a niche market per say.

Also, what about making a trailer that simply encloses a very heavy disk that is connected to the wheels of the trailer via a gearing system that would keep the disk spinning long after power from the engine was cut off. I was thinking about this because it would GREATLY improve the ability of a car to do huge gaps of coasting between accelerating while EOCing. The only thing that would be a concern to be would be getting the big lug rolling at first. Since it would be many times heavier then a standard car flywheel, how would you overcome the effort that is needed to get it spinning at first?

I'm sort of thinking of those push cars, the toy cars you push and then when you let go they have a geared flywheel inside that keeps it going for a good time afterward, sort of like a kinetic energy engine almost that would just store up all the energy you created by accelerating and then release it over time.

And as always,

Chrysler abandoned research on flywheels do to safety and liability issues related to bearing failures and the catastrophic events that would follow.Should the rotor bearings fail and lock the flywheel rotor,the rotor would either tear itself out of it's anchorage energized by gyroscopic forces and would continue a reign of terror until all kinetic energy was spent,or the entire vehicle would spin end-over-end,or pirhouette bumper-after-bumper.There was no way to control it.No way to contain it.Way scary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jamesqf]

"Chrysler abandoned research on flywheels do to safety and liability issues..."

Really? Or was that just an excuse? After all, they (like the rest of the not-so-big any more 3) sure managed to find reasons to give up on every efficiency-increasing device that came along, from electric cars & Stirling engines on down to just simply making smaller cars.

If you do some searching on high-speed flywheels, you'll find there's quite a bit of ongoing research, with systems having been installed in (or planned for) in busses and trains.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

"Chrysler abandoned research on flywheels do to safety and liability issues..."

Really? Or was that just an excuse? After all, they (like the rest of the not-so-big any more 3) sure managed to find reasons to give up on every efficiency-increasing device that came along, from electric cars & Stirling engines on down to just simply making smaller cars.

If you do some searching on high-speed flywheels, you'll find there's quite a bit of ongoing research, with systems having been installed in (or planned for) in busses and trains.

I thought perhaps noCo2 was actually serious about attempting this on own car and I felt an obligation to share info which might broaden their view.I'm all for progress but not at the cost of innocent lives.Chrysler's report carried grave implications about flywheel technology and unless noCo2 has their own test track,I don't want to be within a country mile of their experiments."To know and not tell makes cowards of men" Abraham Lincoln.

[jamesqf]

You know, it always puzzles me when some new technology gets slammed due to some remotely-possible safety problem, by people who blythely ride around in close proximity to 10 gallons or more of highly-flammable liquid fuel which is perfectly capable of turning their car into a blazing inferno if things go wrong. And it does happen, even if not with quite the regularlity that Hollywood chase scenes would have you expect :-) So why haven't we abandoned the internal combustion engine because of these issues?

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

You know, it always puzzles me when some new technology gets slammed due to some remotely-possible safety problem, by people who blythely ride around in close proximity to 10 gallons or more of highly-flammable liquid fuel which is perfectly capable of turning their car into a blazing inferno if things go wrong. And it does happen, even if not with quite the regularlity that Hollywood chase scenes would have you expect :-) So why haven't we abandoned the internal combustion engine because of these issues?

If the main-bearings of the crankshaft seize on an IC engine,the car merely stops in it's tracks,something a nearby defensive driver could adjust for if encountered.This would not be the case for a car with un-predictable behavior.

[jamesqf]

On the other hand, if the driveshaft U-joints (on a RWD car) happen to fail, other drivers can find themselves trying to dodge a 6-foot steel shaft bouncing down the road. Or if you drop a transmission or rear end, or a wheel falls off - all of which I've seen happen - then what? All of these things, and many others, can and do happen, yet the danger doesn't seem to bother anyone.