Vehicle makers say US fuel economy standards put a million jobs at risk

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by sendler

The general public in the US has intentionally yet to grasp the inconvenient truth that...

AKA willful ignorance.

Prolonged negative growth of any amount equals collapse.

https://blog.p2pfoundation.net/re-im...ing/2016/12/14
https://degrowth.org/definition-2/

Fair warning. If you are reading this, your eyes have been opened. I will let your imagination fill in what happens in 50 - 150 years when we inevitably pass peak oil. Sorry.

Don't get ahead of yourself.

Magnetic space coupes?

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

lack of insecuritty, to having no need to impress or to be in fake competition with peers and total strangers

That's a good point.

Originally Posted by sendler

If the goal is to get people to quit burning up so much fossil fuel, it must be heavily taxed. And then the windfall can be given back to the working classes in other breaks so they can still get to work such as the subsidies that are currently running on electric cars and programs like the successful "cash fo clunkers" to get these old pick up trucks off of the road.

Had fossil fuel been heavily taxed before, maybe the "cash for clunkers" program would have been more successful. Some years ago I found some reports claiming that it didn't really have fulfilled some of the goals when it came to improvements to the overall fuel-efficiency. BTW I must confess I got quite surprised when GM phased out the hybrid versions of the Silverado, Tahoe, Escalade and Yukon.

Windfall money would also be available for loans to green energy developement, mass transit, efficient housing, food subsidies. A carbon tax doesn't have to hurt the poor and middle class. And then the rich guys can drive whatever they want and gripe every time they fill up to pay for the mess they are making.

I'm not sure what kind of "green" energy development you would be favorable, but it could eventually get in line with food subsidies. For example, biodigesters seem to be a good option to decrease farmers' dependence on petroleum-based fuels for their tractors and trucks with biomethane, that could also be used in gensets and as a replacement to kerosene used in heaters.

Originally Posted by Fat Charlie

We're already subsidizing cars with all our road construction, parking requirements and the like- what's so bad about shifting the subsidies to other transportation options that have a shot at reducing congestion?

I consider the Japanese approach at setting different tax bands based on the vehicles size as a viable way to reduce congestion, but it's unlikely to happen due to different crash standards set by NHTSA. I'm also favorable to tricycles as a way to circumvent some crash standards and save weight in order to improve overall fuel-efficiency, but not even Harley-Davidson could challenge the automakers lobby...

[freebeard]

The social anarchist approach is to neither support nor hinder government, but to instead go out and invent Internet or Bitcoin and make a dent in Universe.

https://www.arcimoto.com/blog/

[sendler]

The key point here
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"And Fields cited studies that suggested up to 1 million U.S. jobs could be at risk "if we're not given some level of flexibility in aligning with market realities."
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Aligning with MARKET realities.
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Most people in the US don't have a care in the world for wanting a fuel efficient car. You can't force the manufacturer to sell what people do not want. You have to make the the buyers want what you want them to have. And then they will demand it.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by sendler

Most people in the US don't have a care in the world for wanting a fuel efficient car. You can't force the manufacturer to sell what people do not want. You have to make the the buyers want what you want them to have. And then they will demand it.

I think if the automakers directed their advertising budgets to fuel-efficient cars in the same proportions as they now direct it to trucks & SUVs, they would find a lot of people who suddenly wanted those cars. And they could raise the price until they were making just as much profit per car, instead of selling their fuel efficient models at or near a loss in order to meat CAFE standards.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

I think if the automakers directed their advertising budgets to fuel-efficient cars in the same proportions as they now direct it to trucks & SUVs, they would find a lot of people who suddenly wanted those cars. .

Wishful thinking. Not happening. Unless they flat out made adds about the ramifications of using up half million years of stored fossil fuel in 300 years with no back up plan in action. Science education and global resource stewardship in high school is the only hope to open the eyes of the general public. Most kids in the USA take the minimum amount of science and can't read a ruler.

[oil pan 4]

If natural gas was cost effective to run farm equipment they would already have been using it.
Bio gas is some pretty nasty stuff. You do not want to be putting that into a piston engine with out essentially refining it.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

If natural gas was cost effective to run farm equipment they would already have been using it.
Bio gas is some pretty nasty stuff. You do not want to be putting that into a piston engine with out essentially refining it.

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We have to start learning to use alternative energy. Market forces may dictate the cheapest route but this is always short sighted. We will eventually get caught in an energy trap with no way to build alternatives, no experience, and fossil fuel that is too expensive to use to grow food.
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Cummins has a new range of natural gas engines that Fedex is adopting for over the road transport.
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Cummins Westport - Natural Gas Engines - Videos
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[RedDevil]

I read that the Toyota Mirai, which was designed as a hydrogen car using fuel cells to convert that to electicity for its motors, can run on biogas as well.
That would be a win-win. Not only can it prevent letting all the animal waste go to waste, it can also put the hydrogen cars to good use. If affordable hydrogen never happens there is still biogas. Not enough to power a nation, but ample to fuel the few experimental showcase hydrogen cars.

[oil pan 4]

Cummins has been making natural gas engines for decades.
Problem is all the nastys in bio gas will eat the pistons down to the ring groves. It has to be refined at least as much as natural gas.