Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-19-2018, 10:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 5,005

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 42.54 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,866
Thanked 2,501 Times in 1,547 Posts
Hybrid sports cars?

Maybe it's due to the weight? I find myself occasionally wondering why there aren't any hybrid sports or performance cars, which maintain high fuel economy. The NSX is a hybrid but isn't remotely economical.

Food for thought, it wouldn't be terribly difficult to take a Prius and (for Toyota to) quadruple battery and motor size. Fuel economy would be practically the same, so long as you kept the same tires. You might even be able to downsize the engine a bit. Cost would go up, but you would keep great fuel economy while having great acceleration.

Granted, putting a big engine in a Prius, a sports car does not make, but the principle applies. One could, for instance, quite reasonably put a 300HP "motor assist" on a small 3 or 4 cylinder in a Miata. Highway cruising could be in excess of 40-50mpg even with sticky tires, while being able to shred the back tires and scare the **** out of people on demand. Short trips could be on electricity alone.

I feel the Accord hybrid was probably the earliest, closest idea to this, but the battery wasn't big enough and the gas engine basically provided most of the electricity fed to the 181HP electric motor. Plus, it was put in a big, heavy car, so 0-60 was "only" around 7 seconds with 50mpg highway economy. Either Accord, or Volt for that matter, could have the gas engines downsized and the electrical side enlarged to make them truly fast, gas sipping vehicles without the limitations of EVs.

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-19-2018, 10:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Stubby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,747

Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 75
Thanked 576 Times in 426 Posts
CRZ is about the only thing that comes to my mind...and it's no powerhouse.

Hmm...cram a tesla-like motor in the back of a miata, turn the engine in to a motor/generator...gearboxless auto, or maybe a "manual" that you could just throw in the neutral when you can't be bothered to shift for fun.

or a corvette with similar setup and a much bigger engine...

dreaming! Maybe in my lifetime?

Maybe I should do it myself...
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 12:16 PM   #3 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,396

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,192
Thanked 4,380 Times in 3,354 Posts
Designing and building 2 drivetrains and mashing them together is expensive. It's a small miracle that the Prius is the price it is. I think the options are fast, affordable, fuel efficient; pick 2.

The BMW i8 gets nearly 30 MPG on gasoline alone, with a 0-62 MPH time of 4.4 seconds. Nice hybrid sports car.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_i8

__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
Ecky (06-19-2018), Xist (06-27-2018)
Old 06-19-2018, 12:20 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 5,005

ND Miata - '15 Mazda MX-5 Special Package
90 day: 42.54 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,866
Thanked 2,501 Times in 1,547 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Designing and building 2 drivetrains and mashing them together is expensive. It's a small miracle that the Prius is the price it is. I think the options are fast, affordable, fuel efficient; pick 2.

The BMW i8 gets nearly 30 MPG on gasoline alone, with a 0-62 MPH time of 4.4 seconds. Nice hybrid sports car.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_i8

30 is certainly not bad for what it is. Pretty sure the i3 would get significantly better mileage if they had upsized the gas engine a bit, I doubt it's a very efficient mill, the 650cc scooter engine they used isn't going to be 40% thermally efficient pushing around a 3000lb car. You'd of course have to make the car a little larger, or reduce passenger space a bit. Otherwise the rest of the work is basically done.

Last edited by Ecky; 06-19-2018 at 12:26 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 01:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,396

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,192
Thanked 4,380 Times in 3,354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecky View Post
Pretty sure the i3 would get significantly better mileage if they had upsized the gas engine a bit, I doubt it's a very efficient mill, the 650cc scooter engine they used isn't going to be 40% thermally efficient pushing around a 3000lb car. You'd of course have to make the car a little larger, or reduce passenger space a bit. Otherwise the rest of the work is basically done.
The gas engine is meant to be used very little in the i3, which seems crazy to me because building things with the intention of rarely using them is very inefficient. I'd never opt for the hybrid version of the i3. I'd use EV mode for the trips in which it was designed to accomplish, and take a more suitable vehicle for everything else, even if the i3 was my only vehicle. It would be extremely easy to trade a cool Bimmer with a friend for their ICE vehicle over a weekend.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 01:54 PM   #6 (permalink)
Got MPG?
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Southern Alberta, Canada
Posts: 330

The Car - '09 Toyota Corolla CE Enhanced
Thanks: 13
Thanked 43 Times in 38 Posts
Here is the one you want...Porsche 918 Spyder
Combined fuel consumption in accordance with EU 5: 3.1-3.0 l/100 km

6:57 - Nordschleife
__________________
2013 Honda Civic Si - 2.4L
OEM front to back belly pan from the factory.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 02:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,396

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,192
Thanked 4,380 Times in 3,354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeanBurn View Post
Here is the one you want...Porsche 918 Spyder
Combined fuel consumption in accordance with EU 5: 3.1-3.0 l/100 km

6:57 - Nordschleife
And it hovers!
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
Xist (06-27-2018)
Old 06-19-2018, 03:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,562
Thanks: 7,738
Thanked 8,554 Times in 7,041 Posts
I like the 918, but it's a little spendy. I'd settle for a Memminger Roadster 2.7




...with a mild hybrid created by adding a Buick laCrosse altermotor to the Type IV boxer mid-engine.

As for a production hybrid sports car, Toyota could have implemented the Alessandro Volta as early as 2004:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_concept_vehicles,_2000%E2%80%9309#Alessandr o_Volta

http://www.carstyling.ru/resources/studio/2004id_toyota_alessandro_volta_02.jpg

It has a well proven drive train out of a Highlander/LX400h SUV swapped end-for-end, with the V-6 in back. I have an example of the 68hp electric [rear] axle that may go in a VW Beetle some day.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 05:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 1,745

Volt, gas only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 38.02 mpg (US)

Volt, electric only - '12 Chevrolet Volt Premium
90 day: 132.26 mpg (US)

Yukon Denali Hybrid - '12 GMC Yukon Denali Hybrid
90 day: 21.48 mpg (US)
Thanks: 206
Thanked 420 Times in 302 Posts
Toyota 86 + Prius drive train adapted for rwd, double the battery and at least double the electric motor. Would be relatively inexpensive to do, I would think.

I'm waiting for the hybrid camaro, hopefully I dont have to wait too long.
__________________




  Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2018, 05:56 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoWalker
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,998

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 47.72 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,711
Thanked 2,245 Times in 1,454 Posts
There was a Porsche Panamera Turbo e-hybrid on our company carpark today, freeloading on 1 of our 4 client charging ports. The employee parking garage has a series of chargers too for our fleet of company Leafs.

We are doing something wrong. Our clients are rich...

__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.2 Gmeter or 0.13 Mmile.


For confirmation go to people just like you.
For education go to people unlike yourself.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com