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Old 07-04-2014, 09:33 AM   #11 (permalink)
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This is the bag that is pictured.
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Outdoor Products Large Utility Duffel, 90520 | Duffels & Totes | Travel | GEAR | items from Campmor.
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His reluctance toward soft bags is that they change shape according to what is in them so you would have to compete with actual groceries in your bag to be fair. It would be nice to establish a stated volume for the rules. We use a different type of bag where I come from which are much more space efficient than the big paper bags he specifies.
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Old 07-04-2014, 09:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I disagree with the speeding part (it isn't how I really ride) but hey, it's his contest.
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:01 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Lee View Post
speeding
There are many complaints about this. But he is trying to maintain year to year consistency of the events and that is how it has always been. It's a Mountain West/ California thing. From what I have read, Everyone drives insanely fast out there. And it goes back to his desire to promote actual road worthy vehicles. No 60 mph topped out competition machines allowed.
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Old 07-04-2014, 11:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Oh well. For six months I rode a GoldWing in Cali- not all that far from Vetter's place- and I didn't speed. Actually I went 55 in a 65. Oh- nobody shot me either.
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Old 07-05-2014, 05:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Mine is mostly a commuter bike, and while the route goes along what is technically highways from my home and work, it is not what Google Maps calls a highway. They are state highways, and the old U.S. highways; sometimes they're two lane and sometimes four, depending on the stretch, and if folks out here in the rural south try to run 70+ on these highways, which I'm sure they'd like to, where the county mounties and troopers aren't so out numbered, they'll have lots of tickets and high auto insurance.

I run 55-65. Usually from speed limit to 6 or 7 above; no tickets. Any faster, and I'd have tickets. When I travel to one of the larger cities, e.g. Knoxville or Nashville, I'm amazed at how fast people drive even on the state highways and city streets. I guess the cops just are too out numbered to do anything or they don't care about getting caught. Not sure, but it's alot faster traffic than when I lived in K-Town back in the 80s.
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Old 07-06-2014, 10:47 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Out here, Utah, most people run about 70mph on the freeway (thru the Salt Lake area) and once out of the urban areas, 75-80 mph is not uncommon. Running thru Wyoming (I-80) you will see folks at 80+ .

It will be interesting to see how fast we go during Craig's Wendover to Ely competition. My stock bike (Ninja 250) will keep up on the highway at 75 all day long. With aero mods it will be interesting to see how it performs.

Jeff
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Old 07-07-2014, 07:43 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffM View Post

It will be interesting to see how fast we go during Craig's Wendover to Ely competition. My stock bike (Ninja 250) will keep up on the highway at 75 all day long. With aero mods it will be interesting to see how it performs.

Jeff
I bet you'll have no trouble keeping up with the pack. Maybe you won't have to run WOT with the mods you've made.

In the AMA Days event, I'm not so worried about getting passed by an old Helix, but I would like to run a steady pace, which may or may not work if people are towards the back varying their speeds to try and pass.

This being my first-time ride at a Vetter event, I'm sure I'm going to learn alot about what "not" to do that I can't even fathom at this point. Right now, with what I've learned on here, I've sort of got a strategy in mind. I'm thinking if I can run towards the front; maybe just behind Fred and his partner; which I can easily do with the capability of my bike, I may not have to keep watching folks coming up on me. I'm not that accustomed to running tight in a group-ride pack. I'm a daily commuter in a rural area, and normally when I'm commuting, I stay way back when I come up on someone, so this will be a new experience for me. However, lately I've gone on a couple of rides with a guy with on a Hyabusa. I've practiced some staying in tight behind him through turns and all. The bike I've got should be able to perform well and still get great mpg up to about 65 mph. Not sure what happens beyond that. Probably not too good.

During my rides with my riding partner, I've been able to keep the bike in 5th and 6th gear most of the time through the twisties behind him, but some of the tighter curves I had to downshift to 4th, and yet I've been able to keep the RPM between 2800-4000. The CTX700 has still beeen able to return near 80 mpg with this fairly-aggressive riding being a large portion of the miles. My partner says he can't shift up above 4th in the twisties, because he loses all his torque and his engine bogs. I told him that my bike was just the opposite. If I go into a curve, and I've chosen to low of a gear, I find myself having to shift up very quickly in order to have the grunt I need to drive hard out of the curve. My bike performs somewhat like my diesel car, where I need to be careful not to downshift too much; just not the same extreme as my diesel where torque is peaked between 1800-2400.

My partner said that he will average 30-32 mpg on that kind of riding, but that 70+ mph on the interstates, he can get around 37. I told him that I would say it would probably be the opposite for me. I can still do very well mpg wise even with alot of heavy throttling (or at least that's what I'm learning from these kind of rides), as long as I can keep the RPM relatively low. Even though I've never ridden on the interstate @ 70+, I'd guess that my mpg would drop substantially even though it would be far less pulling back on the throttle than these twisty rides.

I'm not a physics-minded person, so I don't know if there is really anything to this theory in my mind, or if my theory is already proven or disproven, but I feel like that low-end, torque-peak machines have an advantage in a fuel economy contest compared to not-so-torquey machines with similar levels of horsepower, and that's part of the reason why Fred does so well. He can keep his bike in the meat of his torque range, and at the same time, be running around 3,000 RPM. Up hills and all. That's sort of how my bike is tuned, except that I've got the disadvantage of multiple cylinders, and what puts me at an even bigger disadvantage, mine is spark ignition. There is a whole laundry list of factors that make diesels more efficient, from the fuel, to the combustion, to the lack of a fuel-air mix requirement. But, at least with respect to the torque curve, I've got only a slight disadvantage as compared to Fred, because my torque also comes on at about 3K just like him and his bikes.

Reading on craigvetter.com, there is lots of discussion about concepts that seems to minimize the importance of engine design or type, but instead all the focus for maximizing fuel economy on two and three wheels deals with limiting horsepower, engine displacement, and lowering drag. I don't even read alot about transmissions and drive trains, but those have to be huge factors. There is some discussion about cylinder size, number, and arrangement, but other than that, I've not found anything dealing with the torque curve, and how a 650+ displacement engine can out do 250's (even if it is a diesel), which I thin think is a big oversight when looking at fuel economy, and I think Fred is proving that on every ride. But I don't really know anything; just rambling and rooting for diesel power!

Last edited by gregsfc; 07-07-2014 at 07:55 AM..
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Old 07-07-2014, 06:14 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Greg, Alan and Fred are pretty close. Last May Fred's mileage was 149.68 mpg over a 116 mile course and Alan achieved 144.28 mpg.

I get what you are saying about diesel vs. gas but I think I'd rather ride Alan's bike over a longer distance vs. Fred's. Alan's looks much more comfortable.

Fred


Alan

Last edited by JeffM; 07-07-2014 at 07:04 PM..
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Old 07-11-2014, 08:50 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
the group is run very tight and very fast....10 foot staggered groupings on narrow roads with bad shoulders.
So, they go to the trouble of streamlining their bikes and then ride in each other's dirty air?

I'm also surprise to learn that they ride like that and leave so little room to maneuver. I live in Ohio and ride on these types of roads. You never know when you'll encounter Amish road apples, animals, or cellularly-distracted drivers veering in your lane. I don't mind speeding, but give me room.
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:37 AM   #20 (permalink)
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News of the world of motorcycling > Vetter Fuel Economy Challenge tests fuel mileage limits

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