Waterless coolant

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by Cobb

Good question, depends on where the mpg improvements comes from. Is it less effort for the water pump, power not needed for the electric or mechanical fan, is it allowing more aero mods or is a poorly cooled engine able to maintain and run advance vs retarded timing?

With a diesel there's no timing to worry about. Their claims are based on raising the engine operating temperature to increase combustion efficiency (the hotter the head the less heat wasted), as well as less use of the cooling fans. Heavy trucks have HUGE fans that consume lots of engine power, but this test isolated the fans. The +3% gains reported were from simply operating at higher temperatures.

WRT the water pump, the Evans coolant is actually thicker than a water/glycol mix, so all else being equal it would take more power to turn the pump. This could be part of the -0.26% they recorded while simply adding the Evans coolant without increasing the operating temperatures, though a variance that small could be considered "noise", especially in non-laboratory controlled testing.

[G2TDI]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

With a diesel there's no timing to worry about.

What do you mean by that?

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by G2TDI

What do you mean by that?

A diesel is a compression ignition engine. There is no traditional electronic ignition system like there is in a gasoline engine. In a gas engine, ignition timing is used to optimise the power production by adjusting precisely when the spark plug is fired to ignite the fuel.

The only timing with a diesel is when the fuel injectors fire.

I'm still very interested in this coolant. I wish Evans would do a better job of promoting it to us gearheads by showing automotive conversions and the results, while answering all of the most common questions and demonstrating how the product deals with them.

My Cruze has an electrically variable thermostat that drops the coolant temperature when the engine is under load. This is very likely done to keep coolant from boiling in the head as the car runs with high coolant temps under light loads... the thermostat doesn't start to open until 221F, but under load the ECU can command it to open and maintain coolant temps much lower.

Using a coolant with a higher boiling point might let me eliminate that electrical thermostat opening, which probably wouldn't do squat for economy under most conditions but might allow the engine to make more power. Also, there would be less thermal shock on the engine if the coolant temps weren't fluctuating as much.

Running a full rad block year round would also be nice, since the fan could still be used to circulate some air through the rad when necessary. My lower grille shutters open and close as needed, I may even have the option to tune that as well but I haven't confirmed that yet.

[AndrzejM]

Originally Posted by Blue Angel

A diesel is a compression ignition engine. There is no traditional electronic ignition system like there is in a gasoline engine. In a gas engine, ignition timing is used to optimise the power production by adjusting precisely when the spark plug is fired to ignite the fuel.

The only timing with a diesel is when the fuel injectors fire.

Timing is VERY important in diesel engines! Yes it's related to the fuel injection, because that the exact moment when power stroke begins. And you can't imagine how much power and FE varies accordingly to injection timing.

[Blue Angel]

Originally Posted by AndrzejM

Timing is VERY important in diesel engines! Yes it's related to the fuel injection, because that the exact moment when power stroke begins. And you can't imagine how much power and FE varies accordingly to injection timing.

I don't doubt what you're saying, but there is still no traditional ignition system in a diesel engine.

[shovel]

http://www.hrpworld.com/client_image...pdf_3415_3.pdf

So... this MSDS of Evans Waterless Coolant says it's ethylene glycol, propylene glycol and "corrosion inhibitors". According to various internet anecdotes, it's around 69% ethylene glycol, 29% propylene glycol, 2% whatever additives.

This MSDS of Castrol ethylene glycol (a conventional coolant/antifreeze) says it's .. ethylene glycol
http://apps.risd.edu/envirohealth_ms...Antifreeze.pdf

This MSDS of Amsoil propylene glycol (a conventional coolant/antifreeze) says it's propylene glycol
http://www.amsoil.com/msds/ant.pdf

This page on Evans' website says it's a "patented non-toxic liquid" and then goes on to say at the bottom that traditional coolant/antifreeze is toxic, even though Evans is made of both of the most common traditional coolants mixed together... Evans Waterless Engine Coolants - FAQs - frequently asked questions

It should be noted that ethylene glycol is in fact quite toxic when ingested, and while e-cigs and many food items (creamy salad dressings, for example) contain propylene glycol I wouldn't exactly recommend taking a swig of it straight.

So I'm curious; why do they declare Evans "non-toxic" when it's mostly ethylene glycol (that IS quite toxic) -


and, why do they make such a big deal about not contaminating it with water when you totally contaminate the same ingredients with water all the time in normal coolant systems. Is it because it's mixed propylene/ethylene, where they play nice together as long as there's no water but then they start having a problem?

[euromodder]

The reason why it shouldn't get contaminated with water, is that water would severely reduce the effectiveness of the coolant.
Water doesn't matter to the (mono)EG or PG in the coolant, but it will matter to your engine ...
Any water in there, would boil at the higher temps that the waterless coolant allows.
Combined with higher thermostat, water in the system is a recipe for disaster.


Dunno how they got it patented - probably based on one of the additives though in the US you can get just about anything patented these days, with total disregard for existing products - as waterless coolants / corrosion inhibitors have been around for quite a while.

I've made hundreds of tons of the stuff

[euromodder]

In traditional coolants, the glycol is at least diluted (by 40-70% water).
In a waterless coolant, it's almost pure, so the effects of swallowing a similar volume will be far worse.

Animals process glycol to glycolic acid, which is what gets you ...

Apparently, a few dozen people a year die in the US due to glycol poisoning
(kids attracted by the sweet taste / atrractive colours, and drunks going for a cheap alcohol substitute)