Are we thinking about the hybrid the wrong way?

[RobertSmalls]

P&G treats problems that some cars do not suffer in the first place. Specifically, excessive engine revolutions, and cruising with the throttle mostly closed. If you can treat those problems without P&G, then your engine is near peak BSFC even during steady state cruising.

Ford was an early adopter of throttle-by-wire, and I'm sure it's included on the new Mustang. The car no longer has a "throttle" pedal, it has a "driver intent" pedal. When the driver requests little power, the ECU is free to upshift and open the throttle wide for better efficiency like a hypermiler would do. Combined with the new Mustang's six-speed automatic transmission that is geared lower than a 5 speed Insight, the variable valve timing, and the 5W20 and low-friction engine internals Ford has been using for the past decade, and you have P&G-like efficiency without P&G.

I have tested the Insight and found little benefit to P&G over lean burn: http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...p-g-13206.html

Conventional engines are closing the mpg gap during light-load cruising, but hybrids with efficient energy storage and retrieval can still deliver much better fuel economy around town.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

His first mission as a B17 pilot was bombing the launch ramps being built on the French coast. That mission was Dec 24, 1943. His last mission was June 6, 1944.

Wouldn't mind a read of his book

Aero helped fighting the V1s as pilots would slip alongside the V1s and use airflow from the wings to tip them over, which would send them into a spin and they would crash.

This is worth a read Wikipedia - V1 - Interceptors

Coming back to regen energy, one key issue is that whatever method is used to store and use the energy collected adds weight to the car, which in turn has to be overcome with energy spent once the car loses momentum.

The Prius biases the effort to low speeds so its good at in town driving, not so good at motorway speeds - which in turn allows Top Gear to have a BMW M3 following a Prius at top speed round their track and get better MPG. The Insight with the IMA gives the assistance at other speeds which maybe makes it more flexible.

[Arragonis]

PS - Spitfire vs V1



Eventually I get image tags to work...

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

One of the essential components of a purely mechanical flywheel energy recovery system, is a Infinitely Variable Transmission to store and apply the energy.

Which of course begs the question: why on earth would anyone want a purely mechanical system? An electrical system is dead simple, and allows parasitic losses to be minimized, by e.g. suspending the flywheel on magnetic bearings in a vacuum.

[Arragonis]

Is there a trade off between a 1.0 petrol car + hybrid pretending to be a 1.6 under load vs a 1.4 compromise, perhaps with a turbo to provide power when needed ?

[user removed]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Which of course begs the question: why on earth would anyone want a purely mechanical system? An electrical system is dead simple, and allows parasitic losses to be minimized, by e.g. suspending the flywheel on magnetic bearings in a vacuum.

At about 5 million per car.

No problem.

Just build it .

regards
Mech

[NiHaoMike]

Or add some instrumentation to allow even novice hypermilers to effectively P&G and let vehicle kinetic and potential energy be the energy storage device.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

At about 5 million per car.

Huh? Don't know where you get your figures, but sub-$500 for mass-produced units ought to be perfectly doable. Maybe a lot less: how much do you suppose the first terabyte hard drives cost? (I remember paying about $500 for a 20 MEGABYTE one, not all that long ago - about the time my truck was built, in fact :-)) Yet today you can find them for under $80: Newegg.com - Hard Drives, External Hard Drives, Internal Hard Drives, Laptop Hard Drives, Portable Hard Drives, Computer Hard Drives, SATA Hard Drives, Hard Drive

[user removed]

Regenerative brake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read about the lithium battery fire in the Red Bull team listed in the links at the bottom of the page.

regards
Mech