Weight difference: Power vs manual windows.

[Thymeclock]

Originally Posted by some_other_dave

I can tell you that the difference is very noticeable on my wife's car, a 1982 911. We have a power-adjustable "sport seat" that we put in for track days, and the non-power "standard" seat that we put in for daily driving. I can certainly feel the difference when picking the seats up. Probably something around 10 lbs difference, possibly more.

Some of that is due to the sport seat being a bit larger (more bolstering) than the non-sport seat, but some is definitely due to the electric motor and actuators. Those are much heavier than the manual adjusters.

Of course, that is 1980s tech. Electric motors have gotten smaller, lighter, and more efficient since then. I'm not sure what the difference would be these days.

-soD

I'm not doubting or disagreeing with anything you said. With a maximum difference of 10 pounds, do you think that by reducing that 10 pounds it would provide any measurable gain in fuel economy in any vehicle?

There are some here that suggest that it would, or that it should be done out of devotion or compulsion for the hypermiling belief, and therefore it would always be beneficial, or at least virtuous. That is what I am questioning.

[hawk2100n]

Most modern cars remove manual window options for simplicity in manufacturing and design, increased profit margins and marketability and weight savings in modern systems.

The Corvette C6 advertised their transition to electric door locks and handles due to the weight savings. Modern micro motors are powerful, reliable and light weight which all make for a superior option for the engineers, marketers and customers.

[euromodder]

then again, VW (and Skoda and Seat) put manual windows in the base versions of the Up! (Citigo and Mii) on price grounds.

Bean counters can be weird

[redpoint5]

Another advantage of motorized seats, mirrors, windows, etc is that the motors produce a known amount of force. All of the components required to transfer that force into motion can then be designed to withstand that known force. With manual windows, some margin of extra strength must be built in to accommodate He-man window closers. Taking the human out of the equation produces more reliable results.

[Vekke]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Another advantage of motorized seats, mirrors, windows, etc is that the motors produce a known amount of force. All of the components required to transfer that force into motion can then be designed to withstand that known force. With manual windows, some margin of extra strength must be built in to accommodate He-man window closers. Taking the human out of the equation produces more reliable results.

This is true. I have broken few sidewindow cables with too much force when the window was frozen and still tried to open it...

[pete c]

Originally Posted by Vekke

This is true. I have broken few sidewindow cables with too much force when the window was frozen and still tried to open it...

Brute.

[pete c]

Originally Posted by euromodder

then again, VW (and Skoda and Seat) put manual windows in the base versions of the Up! (Citigo and Mii) on price grounds.

Bean counters can be weird

Nothing weird about this.

If the manufacturer expects a considerable percentage will opt for the manual windows, it makes sense.

[euromodder]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Taking the human out of the equation produces more reliable results.

I've never had any issues with manual windows.
On the Volvo, the driver's side powered window is rattling in its tracks.

[gasstingy]

I think it's all about money. The power windows, mirrors and locks help the manufacturer justify a higher price on the MSRP. They save money by not having to design and stock the manual components, not having to train someone to install the manual components, etc. They make money by selling repair parts and services when they fail sometime down the road.

I could not care less for power windows and mirrors, but power locks are important to me so I can have remote keyless entry. Much nicer as I run toward the car on a rainy day. And, I kinda like power seats, because my wife is short. With power seats, she moves forward and upwards and she appreciates that. Not too many manual seats in the domestics go upwards. At least they did not in the past. I've only been driving an import for a bit over 2 years now. {Not likely to by another Kia to replace this one though.}

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by euromodder

I've never had any issues with manual windows.
On the Volvo, the driver's side powered window is rattling in its tracks.

I've had many issues with manual windows. Only recently my TSX power window has been making noise that concerns me. The takeaway from my story is that anecdotes are next to worthless when trying to determine the truth of the matter.