Go Back   EcoModder Forum > Off-Topic > The Lounge
Register Now
 Register Now
 


Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 08-14-2012, 11:53 AM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Diesel_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,194

White Whale - '07 Dodge Ram 2500 ST Quad Cab 2wd, short bed
Team Cummins
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 112
Thanked 511 Times in 213 Posts
Maybe this is why cars aren't designed for economy

Around here we often wonder why vehicle manufactures don't do X,Y, or Z to improve the economy of their vehicles (fuel economy and/or total economy).

I had an interesting revelation recently. I've always been a believer in buying used vehicles rather than new ones (for financial reasons). According to cars.com, the average new car loses 40% of it's resale value in the first 3 years. Therefore, you can buy a vehicle 3 years old for almost half off--that still has most of it's life ahead of it. So, not to judge anyone, but from pure economy perspective it doesn't make sense to buy a new car. And yet, obviously, all vehicles are sold from the manufacturer as new. So, therefore, the manufacturers' entire market is to people who aren't buying based on economy. So why design for economy if that's not what your customers are looking for?

Just an interesting thought.

__________________
Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html


  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 08-14-2012, 12:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
5 Gears of Fury
 
War_Wagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Vancouver B.C., Canada
Posts: 1,230

Spunky - '90 Honda Civic CX
90 day: 35.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 175
Thanked 176 Times in 137 Posts
Makes sense to me. Also, an economy minded person that does purchase a new car is a lot more likely to maintain it and keep it "until the wheels fall off", so won't be much of a repeat customer. Whereas the person that buys the newest whatsit is a lot more likely to buy another whatsit 3 years from now when the manufacturer makes a huge change, you know, like offering it with bigger wheels and different coloured lights in the dash.
__________________
"Don't look for one place to lose 100 pounds, look for 1600 places to lose an ounce." - Tony DeFeo
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 12:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
This is part of the harm that planned obsolescence has -- we value new things more than we value *good* things. Cars should be a durable good, and model revisions should be only done when there is an actual functional improvement. Because the car companies can sell us a new car more frequently, they will.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to NeilBlanchard For This Useful Post:
gone-ot (08-14-2012), niky (08-15-2012)
Old 08-14-2012, 12:49 PM   #4 (permalink)
...beats walking...
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: .
Posts: 6,190
Thanks: 179
Thanked 1,525 Times in 1,126 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
This is part of the harm that planned obsolescence has -- we value new things more than we value *good* things.
...Amen! We've become a "throw-away" population: R & R once meant remove & repair, it's now remove & replace.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to gone-ot For This Useful Post:
GRU (08-14-2012)
Old 08-14-2012, 01:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
5speed5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Los Alamos, NM
Posts: 134

TBSS - '08 Chevrolet Trailblazer SS 2WD
90 day: 19.36 mpg (US)

Wife's car - '09 Chevrolet Impala SS
90 day: 22.96 mpg (US)

Big Blue Hippo - '06 Chevrolet HHR 2LT
90 day: 45.99 mpg (US)
Thanks: 8
Thanked 20 Times in 11 Posts
That's a good analysis. I also believe that manufacturers always have to deal with the competition from the used car market when making small cars in general. Imagine a young buyer who can afford either a low-option Chevy Spark or a 2-3 year old nicely loaded 4-cyl Chevy Malibu. The Malibu is safer, more comfortable, more convenient, better looking (alloy wheels, spoiler, etc. compared to the base Spark's plastic wheel covers), and still gets very good gas mileage. It's hard to see the argument for the Spark in that case. The only things in the Spark's favor are extreme fuel economy, more warranty, and new car smell.
__________________
Daily driver:
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 01:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Diesel_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,194

White Whale - '07 Dodge Ram 2500 ST Quad Cab 2wd, short bed
Team Cummins
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 112
Thanked 511 Times in 213 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Tele man View Post
...Amen! We've become a "throw-away" population.
Definitely true. I saw something once about how revolutionary it was when Quaker Oats introduced the cereal box. Prior to that, everybody sold things in either bulk or in reuseable containers (wooden boxes, barrles, tins, glass jars, etc.)
__________________
Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html


  Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 01:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Diesel_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,194

White Whale - '07 Dodge Ram 2500 ST Quad Cab 2wd, short bed
Team Cummins
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 112
Thanked 511 Times in 213 Posts
And, just to be clear, I'm not necessarily saying it's wrong for people to buy vehicles based on reasons other than economy...after all, I do drive a 3+ ton truck back and forth to my office job.
__________________
Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html


  Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 03:32 PM   #8 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Greater Chicago
Posts: 75

RAV4 - '16 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid Limited
90 day: 35.26 mpg (US)
Thanks: 6
Thanked 8 Times in 7 Posts
Also a lot of buyers are more concerned about power, handling, etc. Even looks. Getting the maximum economy out of any car requires sacrifices vs. "the driving experience" and most people won't make that trade-off. So why bother serving that population (us)?

I pissed off everyone between Boston and Morristown, NJ. 55MPH unless downhill. But I also got 35.5MPG out of a V6 SUV that weighs two and a quarter tons.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 04:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
Batman Junior
 
MetroMPG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: 1000 Islands, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 22,513

Blackfly - '98 Geo Metro
Team Metro
Last 3: 70.09 mpg (US)

MPGiata - '90 Mazda Miata
90 day: 52.71 mpg (US)

Even Fancier Metro - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage top spec
90 day: 70.75 mpg (US)

Appliance car - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage ES (base)
90 day: 60.16 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,058
Thanked 6,957 Times in 3,602 Posts
Interesting theory, Dave!

It also used to be (more than 12-15 years ago) that the cheapest (entry-level economy) cars were the models that returned the best fuel economy in any manufacturer's lineup. Mostly this was a byproduct of being small and light, with relatively small (low-power) engines. Therefore, being very economical on the purchase side also meant getting good mileage.

But more or less since the advent of hybrids, fuel economy has become a "feature". With few exceptions, if you want the best MPG in a lineup these days, you have to pay extra for it.
__________________
Project MPGiata! Mods for getting 50+ MPG from a 1990 Miata
Honda mods: Ecomodding my $800 Honda Fit 5-speed beater
Mitsu mods: 70 MPG in my ecomodded, dirt cheap, 3-cylinder Mirage.
Ecodriving test: Manual vs. automatic transmission MPG showdown



EcoModder
has launched a forum for the efficient new Mitsubishi Mirage
www.MetroMPG.com - fuel efficiency info for Geo Metro owners
www.ForkenSwift.com - electric car conversion on a beer budget
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-14-2012, 04:30 PM   #10 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Diesel_Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Indiana
Posts: 1,194

White Whale - '07 Dodge Ram 2500 ST Quad Cab 2wd, short bed
Team Cummins
90 day: 37.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 112
Thanked 511 Times in 213 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetroMPG View Post
Interesting theory, Dave!

It also used to be (more than 12-15 years ago) that the cheapest (entry-level economy) cars were the models that returned the best fuel economy in any manufacturer's lineup. Mostly this was a byproduct of being small and light, with relatively small (low-power) engines. Therefore, being very economical on the purchase side also meant getting good mileage.

But more or less since the advent of hybrids, fuel economy has become a "feature". With few exceptions, if you want the best MPG in a lineup these days, you have to pay extra for it.
That's an interesting point. There's always been somewhat of a trade-off between initial cost and operating cost, however, you're right that it used to be the cheapest cars also got the best mileage. Now, with the hybrids that's not the case. In some cases, the cars that get the best mileage actually don't have the best total economy because the purchase price is so high (the payback times are extremely long).

__________________
Diesel Dave

My version of energy storage is called "momentum".
My version of regenerative braking is called "bump starting".

1 Year Avg (Every Mile Traveled) = 47.8 mpg

BEST TANK: 2,009.6 mi on 35 gal (57.42 mpg): http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...5-a-26259.html


  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com