What about buying more gas at low prices?

[freebeard]

Sure, there are always exceptions to my comments, but generally it's wiser to trade commodities electronically than physically.

...and I'm not sure if you imply that the metal in the nickel is worth more than it's face value, but it's illegal to destroy US minted currency.

It was a 'canned beans and ammo' joke. But seriously, Vault 7? The only means of electronic trade that is fit for purpose is Bitcoin/Ethereum.

No need to melt. Although, I do have a nickel-plated brass hot tank that could stand refinishing.

Hoarding Nickels as Metal Prices Soar

If history is any indication, the hoarders may not have long. In 1965, with the price of silver climbing, the U.S. Mint diluted the composition of both the dime and the quarter. It did the same thing to the penny in 1982 when copper became too expensive. In every case, the composition change caused the value of the original coin to skyrocket: pre-1965 dimes can now sell for $3.50 each, the quarters are valued at more than $8, and pre-1982 pennies are auctioned off in mass quantities on eBay for nearly three cents apiece. “Somebody who kept a thousand dollars’ worth of change 50 years ago could now exchange that bag for $28,000,” says Curtis Penner, a hoarder from Alberta, Canada.

And generally, energy is fungible and therefore in contention; but metals have been cornered long ago.

[bobdbilder]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

All markets are regulated. An "unregulated" market is just regulated by what people are willing to spend (supply and demand). Nothing stops people from charging the highest possible. We all do that. When I sell my labor to an employer, I demand the highest possible amount that they will accept. I'm regulated by the supply of people with my skill-set vs the demand for people with my skill-set. There is no max ceiling on prices just like there is no max ceiling on your income. We don't want artificial floor or ceiling limits placed on the value of things in a free economy. When you do that, unintended bad consequences occur.

I would think that if market was not regulated, all banks would have failed circa 2007. Which would have then snowballed to the auto sector and definitely energy. Plus it would have spread world wide and cause a massive upheaval.

Which at hindsight would be good as we could rewrite everything. Yet we keep doing the same thing over and over again. Nothing has been fixed. As we approach the 10th year anniversary of the Great Recession, would we flailing the same banner? Again?

The idea of a free market is great as long as you accept the other half of the equation; failures should be left on their own. Every time the GOP runs out of money, Congress says ok to raise the ceiling. And a defence contractor seals another billion dollar deal. Nobody is willing to let failure happen. So we cannot say free market is practiced because there is always a safety net.

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by bobdbilder

...because there is always a safety net.

The worrisome part, though, is that the safety net doesn't prevent all the failures, it just postpones a lot of them, making their consequences worse when they finally do happen.

[freebeard]

I would think that if market was not regulated, all banks would have failed circa 2007.

You call that regulation? One hyphenated word: Glass-Steagall

So the question is how do you replace the engine while you're barreling down the freeway. Interestingly, it only became possible to talk about commerce via TCP/IP in 2008 (Satoshi_Nakamoto)

Examples of a free market in action: MTG Gox, The Top 5 Cryptocurrency Failures of All Time

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by bobdbilder

I would think that if market was not regulated, all banks would have failed circa 2007. Which would have then snowballed to the auto sector and definitely energy. Plus it would have spread world wide and cause a massive upheaval.

Which at hindsight would be good as we could rewrite everything. Yet we keep doing the same thing over and over again. Nothing has been fixed. As we approach the 10th year anniversary of the Great Recession, would we flailing the same banner? Again?

The idea of a free market is great as long as you accept the other half of the equation; failures should be left on their own. Every time the GOP runs out of money, Congress says ok to raise the ceiling. And a defence contractor seals another billion dollar deal. Nobody is willing to let failure happen. So we cannot say free market is practiced because there is always a safety net.

I agree with most of what you're saying. The fact that big banks survived the 2008 financial meltdown has nothing to do with regulation and everything to do with public money being used to bail them out.

There should have been a stipulation that if a bank accepted public bailout money, that the shareholders must fire the entire executive management and hire new people. Heck, if I was on a board of directors and was lead off a cliff by reckless behavior, I'd send the idiots packing with no severance pay. Don't even list me as a reference for your next job as Walmart middle-management.

It makes sense that if people are allowed to make unlimited profit, they should also bear the consequences of financial collapse.

Freebeard- Bitcoin is a horrible currency, and I can't wait for it to collapse. It takes an exponentially increasing amount of computing power to calculate the transactions, which means enormous amounts of electricity are being consumed. I'll point out that anything with an exponential rate of growth is unsustainable. Finally, Bitcoin is mostly used for illicit transactions and has little purpose outside of that. All of the recent news about ransomware is only made possible by this untraceable currency.

...and now this thread is completely off the rails. I suggest a lounge thread if there is any value to continuing this discussion.

[freebeard]

I'd follow you there.

[bobdbilder]

I am guilty as charged to let this go that direction. I do not think any amount of discussion would change things as it is beyond any of our control. I am merely suggesting ways to play with cards dealt on the table.

Though if this pops up in the lounge I'd definitely subscribe to it

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by bobdbilder

I am guilty as charged to let this go that direction. I do not think any amount of discussion would change things as it is beyond any of our control. I am merely suggesting ways to play with cards dealt on the table.

Though if this pops up in the lounge I'd definitely subscribe to it

Hey, it's your thread. It's generally accepted for the OP to steer conversation in the direction that interests them.

[freebeard]

I do not think any amount of discussion would change things as it is beyond any of our control. I am merely suggesting ways to play with cards dealt on the table

Quoted For Truth.

I'm fascinated by the way intent, functioning on the quantum level steers the physical world. Like, cars replaced horses on the street of New York City in ten years. I guess things moved slower then.

[bobdbilder]

If we go down to talk Economics, I would fear it would alienate some people from the whole idea of this post; reducing operational costs.

Therefore, I found this piece of information from EIA https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/gasdiesel/

Which is a current survey and not a prediction of gas prices. If you look at the gas pump graphic, it shows percentage of composition of gas prices. A lot of these variables can be known; Crude Oil Price and Taxes. As I look deeper into other sources, Refining margins seem set but they allowed variation with season especially with the ethanol mix. However, the Crude Oil aggregate is the bigger component.

Now as we now head into $50 per barrel territory, which is the highest in three months, I wish you all a pleasant summer.