Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-01-2008, 01:04 PM   #21 (permalink)
X-Frenchy: very
 
groar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Toulouse, France
Posts: 595

scenic - '01 renault scenic
90 day: 43.09 mpg (US)

megane - '97 renault megane classic
Diesel
90 day: 72.53 mpg (US)

dennisius - '06 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 69.27 mpg (US)
Thanks: 9
Thanked 34 Times in 23 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Will View Post
I want a 6th gear!!! Sometimes, at near 3,000 rpm going only 55mph. I actually finding myself looking at the shifter. Damn! Out of gears again!!!!
I know that feeling... except that the car is at 52mph when the 2000rpm shouts me to shift up.

Denis.

__________________
Save money & CO2 at home : http://ecorenovator.org/
Created and managed by the creators of http://ecomodder.com/
---
Earth and health are priceless, so are kilotank and AT-PZEV
Best Mégane tank: 1268.9mi @ 77.847 MPG(US)
2008/06-2011/10 saving:
  • 5725.5 kg CO2 (5342.6+382.9)
  • Diesel / Money: 42.17% = 2446.25€ = 3357.26$


---
megane : thread - kill switch.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-17-2008, 10:20 AM   #22 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,908

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,952 Times in 1,845 Posts
Hello,

Here's an email that will be sending to all car makers (that I can find email addresses for!):

Quote:
Greetings,

I want to try to list steps that car makers could/should take to improve the fuel efficiency, in approximate order of cost:

* The most obvious would be to mold the plastic on the front of the vehicle to be smooth and round, with grill openings that are sized (and placed) only as required to cool the engine. Some new plastic bumper covers and grill pieces could be snapped onto cars. Flush covers should be used on all lights. Fairing pieces could be added to side mirrors. "Zigzag" window trim covers (would smooth out turbulences), and hood gap gaskets, and streamlined wheel covers are easy, too.

All these improvements (above) can add at least 10% and as much as 25% to the fuel economy. Here's more:

* Sealing all the seams and joints (with gaskets or backing flanges) in the high pressure areas of the vehicle.

* Smooth floor pans with no sharp protrusions -- this is part of the drag just as much as the parts of the car that can be easily seen.

* Transmission ratios should be optimized for efficiency at normal driving speeds. Higher gearing with 6-7 speeds would be optimal (smaller engines need more gears to work efficiently); or CVT transmissions.

* Narrower and lighter, LRR tires should be used.

* Average & "instant" MPG displays, that are on all the time. (The Scion xD uses the same display for the odometer, the two trip odometers, average MPG, instant MPG -- way too many things on one display! You have to toggle through them with a button that could not be a bigger pain to press...)

* Throttle control (rather than cruise/speed control!) that maintains even throttle in a user-set speed range, with minimal throttle increases to maintain the speed in that range.

* Tire pressure monitor, that warns the driver when the tires get below the recommended pressure (which could be adjusted upwards if the driver wants to run a pressure up to the tire sidewall maximum).

* Efficient and effective fresh air flow through the vehicle, with intakes on a high pressure area, and exhaust vent(s) out the back of the vehicle into the low pressure wake zone, to reduce drag as much as possible.

* On defrost mode, the A/C should only come on automatically at maximum defrost(if at all), and it should always be toggled on/off by the driver. I would prefer to make A/C on the defrost setting optional.

* Fully ducted engine cooling system, with the intake down low on the front, and the exhaust flows into a low pressure zone; minimizing the size of the radiator and the reducing the "internal" drag as much as possible.

* Video cameras and screens in place of side mirrors.

* Automatic engine shut off and start up; at least with CVT (or automatic) transmissions -- and possibly with standard shifts, based on having both the clutch and the brake applied?

* Lean burn in low vacuum conditions.

* Store hot coolant in a vacuum insulated tank, to speed up warm-up time; a-la what the Prius does.

* Coat all the window glass to exclude as much heat as possible.

* Tighten up wheel openings, and always use aerodynamically designed wheels/covers, with rear wheel skirts (at least optional).

* Make roof racks removable. Years ago, I saw a "papoose" add-on storage system that locked onto the back of the car, with a single caster wheel to support the weight -- it tucked completely into the air flow behind the car; and it would be a great way to add storage space when needed; that did not affect how you drove very much. It could actually greatly improve the overall aerodynamic drag of the vehicle.

* For new 4-cylinder engine designs, the crankshaft could be split with a hydraulic coupling that can automatically disengage two cylinders completely; saving all the pumping and friction losses, for situations when 2 cylinders are enough to provide the required torque to move the vehicle.

* Nissan is (supposedly) going to reduce their cars weight by an average of 15%. I think all cars could be reduced by 20-30% with smarter steel fabrications, smarter use of materials. Here's a site that shows a steel chassis that is 25% lighter and nearly twice as stiff/strong as a conventional steel chassis:

BlueScope Steel Australia: Ultra Light Steel Auto Body (ULSAB) Project

* * Or, make every vehicle with a plug-in electric w/ serial hybrid ICE drive train, with regenerative braking.
If any/all of you can do the same thing -- use my list, or write your own; then we might get them to improve the FE of all their vehicles.

Please share the email addresses that you know about, for any/all of the car companies!
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/

Last edited by NeilBlanchard; 10-17-2008 at 10:30 AM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to NeilBlanchard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (01-28-2010)
Old 10-17-2008, 12:16 PM   #23 (permalink)
AeroGuy
 
eco_generator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Ohio
Posts: 224

Outback 14 - '14 Subaru Outback Limited
90 day: 23.1 mpg (US)
Thanks: 73
Thanked 32 Times in 28 Posts
New cars that shut off at a dead stop. Electric A/C, etc. to make this possible.

24V electrical systems, at least partial to run the constantly used starter.

Retrofit shut down kits for Toyota and Honda passenger car engines & Chevy and Ford Truck gasoline engines.

I would be first in line to buy and also start installing these systems.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2008, 05:53 PM   #24 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: France
Posts: 10
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Stinkin diesel ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mullet View Post
Nobody wanted a stinkin' diesel especially after the GM 5.7L turned out so unreliable.
Know what Johnny ? The problem is that America cannot get the kind of modern diesels we have here in Europe; I am NOT a diesel man myself but I am impressed when I take the company car, a 2007 Renault Mégane station wagon with a 1,5 litre 16-valve turbodiesel and that little car cruises at 100 mph - no kidding ! I have done runs in northern France to Brussels keeping 85-100 mph speeds and you cant tell it's a puny diesel.

On top of that it doesn't smell at all ! These are called twin-scroll turbocharged, common rail injection engines.

Cheers

Denis
France
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2008, 11:31 PM   #25 (permalink)
EV OR DIESEL
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: South Louisiana
Posts: 1,758

FarFarfrumpumpen - '03 Volkswagen Jetta Wagon GLS Premium

Quorra - '12 Tesla Model S P85
Thanks: 57
Thanked 113 Times in 86 Posts
Send a message via AIM to dremd
Quote:
Originally Posted by whokilledthejams View Post
...except the nerds that buy German cars.

I wish I was a nerd with a diesel German car. .
I'm not sure if I should take that as an Insult or a complement.
__________________
2016 Tesla Model X
2022 Sprinter
Gone 2012 Tesla Model S P85
Gone 2013 Nissan LEAF SV
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
6 speed ALH TDI Swapped in to a 2003 Jetta Wagon
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 08:59 AM   #26 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,908

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,952 Times in 1,845 Posts
A comprehensive list:

Here's a updated list:

I want to try to list steps that car makers could/should take to improve the fuel efficiency, in approximate order of cost:

The most obvious improvement to cars, would be to mold the plastic on the front of the vehicle to be smooth and round, with grill openings that are sized (and placed) only as required to cool the engine. Some new plastic bumper covers and grill pieces could be snapped onto cars. Flush covers should be used on all lights. Fairing pieces could be added to side mirrors. Hood gap gaskets, and streamlined wheel covers are easy, too.

All these improvements (above) can add at least 10% and as much as 25% to the fuel economy. Here's more:

* Sealing all the seams and joints (with gaskets or backing flanges) in the high pressure areas of the vehicle.

* Smooth floor pans with no sharp protrusions -- this is part of the drag just as much as the parts of the car that can be easily seen. Smoothing the underside with covers (like the EV-1).

* Transmission ratios should be optimized for efficiency at normal driving speeds. Higher gearing with 6-7 speeds would be optimal (smaller engines need more gears to work efficiently); or CVT transmissions.

* Narrower and lighter, LRR (low rolling resistance) tires should be used.

* Average & "instant" MPG displays, that are on all the time. The new Honda Insight, the 3rd gen Prius, and some Ford models, have excellent displays that help the driver be more efficient.

* Throttle control (rather than cruise/speed control!) that maintains even throttle in a user-set speed range, with minimal throttle increases to maintain the speed in that range.

* Tire pressure monitor, that warns the driver when the tires get below the recommended pressure (which could be adjusted upwards if the driver wants to run a pressure up to the tire sidewall maximum).

* Efficient and effective fresh air flow through the vehicle, with intakes on a high pressure area, and exhaust vent(s) out the back of the vehicle into the low pressure wake zone, to reduce drag as much as possible.

* Coat all the window glass to exclude as much heat as possible.

* On defrost mode, the A/C should only come on automatically at maximum defrost (if at all), and it should be on a timer of ~1 minute, and it should always be toggled on/off by the driver. I would prefer to make A/C on the defrost setting optional.

* Efficient lights such as LED's and HID, that use a little power as possible while functioning as well (or better) than incandescent lights.

* Lower consumption electronics, such as A/C, fans and audio systems.

* Use very low friction wheel bearings, such as ceramic bearings; along with low viscosity lubrication, to reduce rolling resistance. The VW 1L car uses these.

* Active grill, that opens when more cooling air is needed, but remains closed – and is more aerodynamic most of the time.

* Fully ducted engine cooling system, with the intake down low on the front, and the exhaust flows into a low pressure zone; minimizing the size of the radiator and the reducing the "internal" drag as much as possible.

* Video cameras and screens in place of side mirrors. This would help a lot with aerodynamics.

* Automatic engine shut off and start up; at least with CVT (or automatic) transmissions -- and possibly with standard shifts, based on having both the clutch and the brake applied?

* Lean burn in low vacuum conditions. Use variable valve timing to gain efficiencies.

* Store hot coolant in a vacuum insulated tank, to speed up warm-up time; a-la what the 2nd generation Prius does. Or, do what the 3rd generation Prius does: heat the coolant quickly using the exhaust heat. Preheating intake air would also help fully vaporize the fuel; making it higher efficiency.

* Tighten up wheel openings, and always use aerodynamically designed wheels/covers, with rear wheel skirts (at least optional).

* Make roof racks removable. Years ago, I saw a "papoose" add-on storage system that locked onto the back of the car, with a single caster wheel to support the weight -- it tucked completely into the air flow behind the car; and it would be a great way to add storage space when needed; that did not affect how you drove very much. It could actually greatly improve the overall aerodynamic drag of the vehicle.

* Regenerative shock absorbers: MIT has a method of using hydraulics to drive a generator, eliminating the need for a mechanically driven alternator; or, to charge the electric drive batteries. These can also be used to lift and level the vehicle, to improve aerodynamics under different loads.

* Use a composite wheel/tire that has low weight, very low rolling resistance (by being strong enough to stay round), and low aerodynamic drag, no worries about inflation -- and re-tune the suspension to work with said wheel/tire. (see item above)

* For new 4-cylinder engine designs, the crankshaft could be split with a hydraulic coupling that can automatically disengage two cylinders completely; saving all the pumping and friction losses, for situations when 2 cylinders are enough to provide the required torque to move the vehicle. There are also cam-driven designs that about double the efficiency of the ICE.

* Nissan is (supposedly) going to reduce their cars weight by ~15%. I think all cars could be reduced by 20-30% with smarter steel fabrications, smarter use of materials. Here's a site that shows a steel chassis that is 25% lighter and nearly twice as stiff/strong as a conventional steel chassis:

BlueScope Steel Australia: Ultra Light Steel Auto Body (ULSAB) Project

* Make every vehicle with a plug-in electric w/ serial hybrid ICE drive train, with regenerative braking.

* Rework the overall shape of the vehicle to reduce drag. Cd of 0.16-0.25 are achievable!

Is there anything that I left out?
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/

Last edited by NeilBlanchard; 04-03-2009 at 12:48 PM.. Reason: updated and edited for clarity
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 11:58 AM   #27 (permalink)
Legend in my own mind
 
trikkonceptz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Homestead, Fl.
Posts: 927

Evil Pumpkin - '08 Scion xD RS 1.0 #1633
90 day: 35.45 mpg (US)

Silent Silver Killer - '10 Honda Insight EX
90 day: 51.5 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Neil, what would be better .. send this email off to car companies or politicians with the promise to support or ban those that do not that do support our thoughts....
__________________
Thx NoCO2; "The biggest FE mod you can make is to adjust the nut behind the wheel"

I am a precisional instrument of speed and aeromatics
If your knees bent in the opposite direction......what would a chair look like???





  Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 01:01 PM   #28 (permalink)
A madman
 
brucey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: WV
Posts: 1,018

Pequod - '17 Subaru Outback
90 day: 22.79 mpg (US)
Thanks: 73
Thanked 183 Times in 98 Posts
Send a message via AIM to brucey
Because forcing our ideals on others is the ONLY WAY to get things done!

I agree with a lot of the ideas, but really, do we need more feds sticking their noses in everyones business?
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 02:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
X-Frenchy: very
 
groar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Toulouse, France
Posts: 595

scenic - '01 renault scenic
90 day: 43.09 mpg (US)

megane - '97 renault megane classic
Diesel
90 day: 72.53 mpg (US)

dennisius - '06 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 69.27 mpg (US)
Thanks: 9
Thanked 34 Times in 23 Posts
Lots of these things are partly present in newer low consumption cars in France
  • Upper front grill is minimal and lower front grill is partially blocked (less for diesel which has the turbo cooler).
  • Wipers are hidden behind the hood
  • 6 speeds gear are an options more and more common
  • LRR are often by default (Michelin Energy Saver) and I have seen a commercial saying that the FE is measured with these tires
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
* Rework the overall shape of the vehicle to reduce drag. Cd of 0.16-0.25 are achievable!
The comments I heard on TV about the Prius III & Insight II tell me that these low Cd cars will not be accepted by people. They were saying that they hopped that the new versions were going to look like cars but they are always bad looking.
The French sedan corresponding to the Prius (Citroen C4 berline or Renault Laguna) have a Cd of 0.29, ie 16% more drag and 13% more fuel consumption at highway speed... but it seams that people and journalists can't understand that... They just want the sport look with huge front grill, huge wheels (with their air blenders )...
The comments about the Econ mode and the Efficiency display of the Insight II were all negative ("no interest", "ridiculous game"...).
The only positive comment about the Insight II was that the electric system is only an assistance to the ICE so there is less batteries, less weight and more room...

The more I ecodrive, the more I love low Cd cars and the more I want my car to be as efficient at coasting in high speed than it's in low speed.

Denis.
__________________
Save money & CO2 at home : http://ecorenovator.org/
Created and managed by the creators of http://ecomodder.com/
---
Earth and health are priceless, so are kilotank and AT-PZEV
Best Mégane tank: 1268.9mi @ 77.847 MPG(US)
2008/06-2011/10 saving:
  • 5725.5 kg CO2 (5342.6+382.9)
  • Diesel / Money: 42.17% = 2446.25€ = 3357.26$


---
megane : thread - kill switch.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2009, 03:09 PM   #30 (permalink)
Legend in my own mind
 
trikkonceptz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Homestead, Fl.
Posts: 927

Evil Pumpkin - '08 Scion xD RS 1.0 #1633
90 day: 35.45 mpg (US)

Silent Silver Killer - '10 Honda Insight EX
90 day: 51.5 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2
Thanked 14 Times in 13 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucey View Post
Because forcing our ideals on others is the ONLY WAY to get things done!

I agree with a lot of the ideas, but really, do we need more feds sticking their noses in everyones business?
Well I don't think the car companies were the ones leading the pack to install seatbelts. They felt it would give the impression that their cars were unsafe. So yeah, in cases like this a push from the feds wouldn't be a bad thing.

__________________
Thx NoCO2; "The biggest FE mod you can make is to adjust the nut behind the wheel"

I am a precisional instrument of speed and aeromatics
If your knees bent in the opposite direction......what would a chair look like???





  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread




Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
I found another advantage to driving an ultra-low Cd car basjoos Aerodynamics 26 08-25-2012 03:15 PM
EcoModding for Beginners: Getting great gas mileage. SVOboy EcoModding Central 55 08-21-2012 12:34 AM
My First Electric car Experience WaxyChicken The Lounge 8 09-05-2008 09:46 PM
Good take on things (long) Daox General Efficiency Discussion 8 08-30-2008 05:11 PM
$500 and 30mpg car? possible? olderthanme EcoModding Central 6 07-15-2008 10:37 PM



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com