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Old 06-06-2017, 07:35 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidecar View Post
there is also staggered tandem, which makes a shorter if slightly wider cockpit, but enables a rather better view forward with more elbow room for both driver and passenger.
How would that setup increase elbow room?

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Old 06-06-2017, 07:44 AM   #82 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
How would that setup increase elbow room?
Seating is staggered left and right as well as fore and aft, so instead of being a full width for two persons its one person plus the passengers leg room width.
Situation is pilot is at front right, so pilot has space his/her left, passenger to his her right.
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Old 06-06-2017, 08:23 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Swing axles and rear steering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sidecar View Post
among the influencing factors was the swing axle of up to late 70's designs. This meant that the car tended to push on the now near sideways rear wheel, and by the attribute of the swing axle folding it under the car, reducing tyre contact patch and raising the rear of the car and therefore CG even higher, further degrading stability.

Should anything contact the most forward rear tyre at this instant causes a snap roll, even if the driver induces corrective steering it will matter not, the car is bluntly 'out of control'.

If one is lucky, the car will fully invert to traveling backwards, its most stable condition.



because I dont think there is any hope that the center of pressure or center of resistance is going to be anywhere near aft of the the CG, where it needs to be for stability.



I think the outrageous safety record of this car speaks for itself. I know these cars are still popular to this day, and I have owned a few myself. Im quite used to the arguments that somehow the data is wrong and these are cheap to run well 'engineered' cars. But a car that will kill you has no saving graces, its just lethal and unnecessary.
Another great sin of the swing axle is the considerable track change and consequent scrub as it goes over a bump. This can start a slide as the effective traction rises and falls. Mercedes persisted for a while with the low-pivot swing axle, using a common hinge point below the differential, but that complicated the half-shafts as much as other systems, and only reduced the problems.

The basic handling of a tail-heavy car can still be understeer, with chassis tuning. The most basic modification is to add a strong anti-roll bar at the front. BTW, doing that would move the jacking point forward, without affecting the cg. On the VW, the driver moves the cg forward when under way. My point was that anything light and fast should be stable even without input from the ground. Sometimes it drops away too fast, and sometimes it is covered in wet ice. The Tatra gained a tailfin to help, but not enough.

To re-design a car to normally run in reverse with rear steering, you don't change the geometry. If you reverse the caster to keep the wheels trailing, once you do get into a steady - state turn, it wants to increase, not straighten out. The only change needed is a steering damper, to control the short-term wandering.
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:19 PM   #84 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sidecar View Post
Seating is staggered left and right as well as fore and aft, so instead of being a full width for two persons its one person plus the passengers leg room width.
Situation is pilot is at front right, so pilot has space his/her left, passenger to his her right.
Seating in a regular tandem setup still sounds more reasonable.
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Old 06-06-2017, 06:53 PM   #85 (permalink)
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What would I creat?

How about an El Camino type of Honda Crosstour?
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Old 06-06-2017, 09:39 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Sort of like subarute?
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:26 AM   #87 (permalink)
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Yeah.
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Old 06-07-2017, 12:28 AM   #88 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Seating in a regular tandem setup still sounds more reasonable.
Yes, I agree. The longer the teardrop, the more aerodynamic, and the longer wheelbase for smooth ride.
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Old 06-07-2017, 05:59 AM   #89 (permalink)
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Has to be 100% electric. I guess this is a "modder" group but for efficiency ICE is dead IMO. VW hammered the final nail in the coffin.
After 28 years of driving ICE cars and bikes I bought a used Nissan Leaf - what a revelation! The perfect commuter. It's often powered by my solar PV panels, if not it's by wind and solar bought via the grid. I encourage anyone who hasn't tried one to do so - then have a go in a Tesla
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Old 06-07-2017, 06:08 AM   #90 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
Seating in a regular tandem setup still sounds more reasonable.
yeah fair enough, I guess it depends on other attributes as to the width of your vehicle made necessary by the chosen engine/drive, and the resulting drag sum of the pluses and minuses of teardrop fuselage + wheel nacelles vs a consistent but unusually narrow aero shape.

Probably the most famous instance of staggered seating is Volkswagens 1 ltr XL1. But even that doesnt expand on the full utility of staggered seating.



Last edited by sidecar; 06-07-2017 at 06:11 AM.. Reason: edit
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