What small safe 4x4's have no center console?

[cajunfj40]

So, I'm in the market for a new-to-me used vehicle and I figured the wide experience here could help with suggestions.

I've been driving an all-manual 1999 Chevy Prizm. Cons: 172k+ miles, uses oil (defective engine design), needs struts, is rusty and beat up, dunno which major system will fail next, is basically worthless, boring, annoying. Pros: Paid for, cheap to insure, 30+mpg avg. without trying very hard, corners/accelerates pretty good, will tow a surprising amount on my cheap folding trailer.

What I want is unavailable: an FJ40 with a bench seat, good crash test results and decent mpg or electric drive.

So, I compiled what I'd like to have in a vehicle: Bench front seat for date nights, at least 2 rear seats with shoulder belts for when I need to haul the kids around, 4x4 with low range (or equivalent) for when I want to go 'wheeling again, minimum 4*/4* crash test rating so I and passenger are less likely to die when Bad Luck hits, looks that I don't hate so I don't hate driving the thing, and decent mpg/mpge so I don't swear every time I fill up.

A '92-'96 Ford Bronco is as close as I can get, and a similar vintage 2-door GMT-400 chassis Blazer/Yukon/Tahoe is also reasonable. Both will need front seat swaps from same series extended-cab trucks to get the front bench, but its a half-day bolt-in swap and parts are cheap. Related vehicles are also (cheaper) possibilities but are longer/heavier/even worse on fuel.

What smaller vehicles are out there that meet my needs/wants? What is out there with the driver and passenger close enough together without a redicu-large center console keeping them apart? I.E. the benefits of a bench seat without the wide vehicle? Which of those has a decent safety rating (4*/4* NHTSA minimum or equivalent) and has 4wd with a low range or equivalent "crawl capability" (or can be reasonably modified to have same?)

A Suzuki Samurai with a decent crash test rating would be great. The modern derivative Vitara/Grand Vitara/Tracker lost its low range and gained a center console when it got decent crash ratings, so that's out. I would strongly consider a Subaru if they didn't have the center console (aftermarket has ways to get a low-range equivalent). The RAV4 and CRV also have the center console problem, at least that I've seen so far.

What's out there that I haven't come across yet? Prefer $4k or less total price, but a perfect vehicle may get me to break down and make payments.

Thanks all!

[roosterk0031]

I think the 2008 Grand Vitara still had a low range (2.7 v6 only powertrain), 09 low range with 3.2v6 only. certain 2010-13 trim levels still did.

2008 or 2009 Kia Sorento was the last of the RWD biased, had low range & rear limited slip diff.

[aardvarcus]

I think you are on the right track with the GMT400 Blazer. I've pulled out that era bench seat, didn't even take an hour to remove or reinstall. Ideal would be one with the 6.5L diesel and NV4500 Transmission. If you didn't want to deal with the nuances of that era diesel, a 350 with NV4500 would be a decent runner up. The NV4500 is an easy swap in an early version with the 4L60 before they switched to the 4L60E, did that in my old GMT400 K2500, don't have to even touch the electronics. Combine that with 3.08 or 3.42 differential ratio and you would easily be in the 20+ MPG range. A 4 door Blazer/Tahoe/Yukon/Denali/Escalade would only be slightly longer and heaver, and much easier to find.

The other option would be a custom seat swap into your vehicle of choice. Stick to a model before they started to put airbag sensors in the seats or you are asking for trouble. I am really impressed with my wifes 2000 4Runner Limited, which is a good size (not to big or small) in my mind. Hers has the Multimode Transfer case (2WD, AWD, 4WD, N, 4WD-L) and rear differential locker, so just about as versatile as you could ask for offroad.

[Hersbird]

If a full size Chevy Blazer is small what is a big SUV?
I'd look for XJ 4.0 liter Cherokee and swap in a bench seat from a Comanche pickup.

[cajunfj40]

roosterk0031: Thanks for the mention of the Grand Vitara and the Sorento. Both are possibilities if I can manage the seating - they have a "divide the cabin in two" style center console design, expressly what I do not want. The earlier Vitara (2001-2005, possibility 1998+, but crash results are missing 98-00) versions had a console style that looks removable, but I'll need to research more. Apparently some XL-7 parts/previous generation parts can be swapped in to allow fitment of lower gears, locking diffs, and aftermarket low-range gearing, etc. 2006+ looks more integrated interior-wise, and there's no aftermarket driveline bits that I can find. The Sorento I need to dig into more still.

aardvarcus:

I think you are on the right track with the GMT400 Blazer. I've pulled out that era bench seat, didn't even take an hour to remove or reinstall. Ideal would be one with the 6.5L diesel and NV4500 Transmission. If you didn't want to deal with the nuances of that era diesel, a 350 with NV4500 would be a decent runner up. The NV4500 is an easy swap in an early version with the 4L60 before they switched to the 4L60E, did that in my old GMT400 K2500, don't have to even touch the electronics. Combine that with 3.08 or 3.42 differential ratio and you would easily be in the 20+ MPG range. A 4 door Blazer/Tahoe/Yukon/Denali/Escalade would only be slightly longer and heaver, and much easier to find.

No diesels, unless I can get 20-30% better fuel economy than gas while driving 10 miles one way from a cold start without murdering it. My usage pattern means 10 mile drives a minimum of 9 hours apart (120VAC 15A available both ends), with a monthly ~35 mile one way, 1.5 hr stop with no power outlet access, ~35 mile return trip.

Which means a related question: How do you keep cold starts/short trips from killing a diesel? Are IDI better than DI for such duty?

The 4-doors are quite plentiful around here. If I could score a Hybrid that would be awesome, but GMT800 and a more complicated seat swap due to very much more integrated console due to a high option count on those rigs. Plus a min buy of $10k apparently, and still only ~20mpg. Great base for "more battery" mods, though.

The other option would be a custom seat swap into your vehicle of choice. Stick to a model before they started to put airbag sensors in the seats or you are asking for trouble. I am really impressed with my wifes 2000 4Runner Limited, which is a good size (not to big or small) in my mind. Hers has the Multimode Transfer case (2WD, AWD, 4WD, N, 4WD-L) and rear differential locker, so just about as versatile as you could ask for offroad.

I'm hoping to keep the seat swap "in the family" to make it hopefully easier. The Toyotas, while great trucks, are either expensive or have rotted out frames or both up here, unfortunately. I did have an FJ40 before, hard to beat.

Hersbird:

If a full size Chevy Blazer is small what is a big SUV?

It and the full size Ford Bronco are the "smallest of the large". They are not small, but are not a Suburban or Crew Cab Longbed. They are the smallest with room for a real bench seat with useable-by-an-adult front center passenger position.

I'd look for XJ 4.0 liter Cherokee and swap in a bench seat from a Comanche pickup.

The Cherokee has a good safety rating and excellent aftermarket stuff, but I need to figure out the seating - a bench is no good if the center only fits a 10yo, and the buckets are IIRC too far apart for what I want. Just scooting the passenger seat over won't work unless it is a non-airbag vehicle with a uniform dash shape. The early XJ's and Ford Explorers had no passenger airbag but still got 4* passenger crash ratings, so may be workable.

Generally:
This is why I am asking for info on small 4x4's I may have overlooked. The Vitara may yet be narrow enough if I can ditch the center console. Compact trucks got too wide for what I'll call "close buckets" but are too narrow for a good center seating position in a bench, so it is full size or compact, unless something interesting I don't know about turns up. EV's don't yet have low range (that I know about, or isn't a $50k custom), there is no bus, and a bicycle just won't work with having to get the kids on the school bus and getting to work on time. Please keep coming up with suggestions!

[roosterk0031]

Yeah I skipped the console issue because I didn't know the answer.

My wife might be getting a 08 GV this weekend. A late 90's 4-door Tahoe would be ok option what you save of purchase helps cover gas. That's how I'm looking at the $6000 GV vs a newer compact crossover. 1998 Tahoe combined is 13 mpg, GV is 19. By 2008 Tahoe's were up to 16 mpg combined.

Can't find many accessories for the 07-08 GV either, using the brakes instead of a LSD I'm curious to try out, I've read it only does it in 4 Low, I'll find out once I get it. The one I'm looking at has 255-55-16 that are worn & mismatched so get to give it some new shoes pretty quickly. Leaning towards some Nokian Rotiiva AT 245-70-16, 245 are cheaper than 235 or 225-70 oem size.

[aardvarcus]

I missed that you have such short trips, I have to commute a ways so I am used to only worrying about long trips and highway. I don’t have any expertise on diesels and short trips so I can’t comment on that. I have heard conflicting information on IDI being better at cold starts, I think the typically higher compression ratio helps, but I think the heat losses of the precombustion chamber don’t help matters unless you go through the trouble of having it ceramic coated.

The recipe I have used before for good MPG out of the GMT-400 platform involves the stick shift transmission and careful driving. I think in your case with the shorter trips, a 350 and NV4500 would be the better power train option over the 6.5L.

[Hersbird]

First gen Durango could have a bench and is smaller then a full size Blazer or Bronco. It could have 3 rows as well for 8 passenger ability. Many don't have a bench but they were common in the Dakota which is the same. The 4.0 in a Jeep is a much more reliable choice, those 4.0 are just amazing and cheep and easy to work on when things do go wrong.

These are all right in line with the size of an FJ40. If it is big enough a Durango is big enough, and so is a Cherokee or Grand Cherokee. There is a reason those 95-98 Grand Cherokee were the #1 seller those years.

[cajunfj40]

roosterk0031: No worries - just getting a pointer to a vehicle I hadn't previously considered is a help. As for the 08 GV accessories, might need to check whether older parts could be swapped in to make use of the existing aftermarket.

Found a 2001 Tracker 4-door manual on CL for $1500 with 169k on the body/139k on the swapped in engine. Leaks refrigerant and some oil. Looking really interesting if the seating doesn't bug me too much.

aardvarcus: I test drove a 1998 K1500 exit cab shortbed with factory 4.3 V6 and 5-speed. Too many problems on that particular one for me, but it felt reasonable after discounting for the age and condition. Would have been great for my needs - I don't need a V8, but if I get the horsepower bug there's plenty goodies that will fit that engine.

As for short trips, you didn't miss it - I failed to mention it. Must have edited it out before I posted.

Only trouble is parsing the really complex crash result pattern - only certain years of certain styles of the GMT400 pass my minimum - except all the Suburbans do.

Hersbird: The Durango is a possibility, but it looks like manuals and v6's went away by the time they got a 4*/4* crash rating (2001).

The Cherokee is interesting because it is quite narrow and has a great aftermarket. Problem is, only 1995 and 1996 meet my 4*/4* crash result criteria. Grand Cherokee didn't meet/surpass it until 2005.

Generally:
Starting to think the seating may be an unsolvable problem in anything but a full size or a pre-passenger-airbag rig. And it could take a lot of fabrication, too. Nuts. I've gotten used to my compact car, I don't really want a big truck but a good bench seat is very appealing to me. Wish I didn't hate the looks of the 1997+ F150, it would increase my options. The 1998-2001 Dodge Extended Cab trucks are even wider inside, but are really thirsty and I've heard of reliability issues.

Other vehicles that may work: Ford Explorer from 1995 on, but automatics got a very bad reputation. Lots of cheap ones around, though. 1997 or newer Jeep Wrangler - expensive unless rusty but I found a decent-looking 4-cyl manual one for $4k on CL that might be worth checking out. 4Runners from 1999 on are surprisingly narrow. Frame rot is an issue though.

I suppose I could do a body lift and flatten the center hump down, but that's getting really involved and I'm not all that certain what a body lift does to the crash mechanics. :-/

And my car just decided to leak enough brake fluid to have a stupid-low pedal and poor braking. My timetable is getting short - if this costs too much to fix, I either settle on something I can find this weekend or I fix the car with cash from the truck fund and wait until spring. :-( (too dark and wet to see where the leak is...)

[roosterk0031]

Thought about a Montero or Montero Sport, can be had pretty cheap, some Montero had 3rd row, and limited generally get rear LSD. All V6's have timing belts.

The Montero's in particular seem to age pretty well.

2002 Mitsubishi Montero-7 Passenger,4wd,V6,Cloth,1 Owner,Nice suv

2001 Mitsubishi Montero Limited 4WD

S-10 Blazer if you can find a nice treaded one had low range right up till the end I think, parts are easy to come by, ok mpg and easy to work on.