Wind turbines

[redpoint5]

Mmmm, summer sausage.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

The windmills are getting in the way of grazing reindeer that are butchered for their meat? None of that seems to make any sense.

Don't worry about the reindeer. They'll be extinct before too long thanks to climate change.
They're starving to death by the tens of thousands.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Don't worry about the reindeer. They'll be extinct before too long thanks to climate change.
They're starving to death by the tens of thousands.

I'm not worried, I get my meat from Safeway like a normal person.

If we wanted to save the reindeer, we'd farm them. Safeway would run occasional specials.

Got any link showing reindeer collapse? So far in my quick look it seems the populations fluctuate over the decades, roughy maintaining population size in the long run.

[redneck]

Originally Posted by aerohead

Don't worry about the reindeer. They'll be extinct before too long thanks to climate change.
They're starving to death by the tens of thousands.

Lol…

In this particular case, it’s actually just the opposite…

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...rio-christmas/

But the Guardian says that a freeze-thaw weather pattern it blames on climate change is endangering the hardy caribou, by limiting access to lichen for grazing.

The Guardian also reported that the death of 200 reindeer earlier this year in the Arctic archipelago Svalbard was caused by climate change, according to the Norwegian Polar Institute, which cited starvation.

“Climate change is making it rain much more. The rain falls on the snow and forms a layer of ice on the tundra, making grazing conditions very poor for animals,” Ashild Onvik Pederson, who led an annual census of the reindeer population on the islands, said in the Guardian report.

The article, however, also said a large number of reindeer deaths were recorded in 2007-2008, but not in subsequent years leading up to latest census.

Moreover, the article also reports that a part of the problem is that the reindeer population has exploded despite weather patterns:

The increased mortality is also due in part to a significant increase in the number of reindeer in the Norwegian archipelago. That is partly thanks to climate crisis and the warmer summers, meaning more individuals compete in the same grazing areas.

Since the 1980s, the number of reindeer has doubled in Svalbard, and now stands at about 22,000, according to the Norwegian Polar Institute

.

This herd is thriving, not going extinct…






>

.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I'm not worried, I get my meat from Safeway like a normal person.

If we wanted to save the reindeer, we'd farm them. Safeway would run occasional specials.

Got any link showing reindeer collapse? So far in my quick look it seems the populations fluctuate over the decades, roughy maintaining population size in the long run.

NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC, October, 2017.
It's about the Nenets people of Siberia and the tens of thousands of animals that starved to death due to the rain / refreeze cycles they're witnessing.
They can't get to the lichen, which previously sustained them.
Invasive plants are making foraging even more of a challenge.
Reindeer are essentially all the Nenets people have.
And ironically, they're surrounded by the oil industry, discharging the methane which is accelerating global warming, responsible for the rain, which they'd never seen since time immemorial.
I GOOGLED it the other day, it remains pretty grim for them.

[redpoint5]

I'm persuaded.

Way easier to eliminate CO2 and methane production, thereby lowering the outdoor thermostat, thereby preventing ice buildup, thereby allowing wild animals to eat lichen, thereby having plenty of wild animals to kill and eat... than to give the primitive people food or jobs, or discover agriculture and farming.

That's entirely the reason why humanity moved away from hunting and gathering to farming and agriculture; to reduce the chance of being dead due to unlucky hunting and gathering, and to produce an abundance.

[aerohead]

They're some of the folks under study for examples of sustainable living, something the 'civilized people' haven't figured out how to master, hence the unfolding extinction.
Some people live where they do because they've never needed a 'job' and 'eating' was never an issue.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by aerohead

They're some of the folks under study for examples of sustainable living, something the 'civilized people' haven't figured out how to master, hence the unfolding extinction.
Some people live where they do because they've never needed a 'job' and 'eating' was never an issue.

Sustain what, and for how long?

The way nature works is the predator population is limited by the health of the prey population, so they are correlated. Unfortunately for a hunter/gatherer society, that means when food is scarce, people, mostly children, die.

I'm not willing to allow my children to succumb to malnutrition to play an experiment about primitive living under the guise of "sustainability". I do not expect most others to choose that either when given the option, which is why primitive cultures will continue to decline and disappear. Most people place "sustaining" themselves and their families as the top priority.

Those who view humanity as a blight on the earth may find the brutality of primitive living as a good thing (for others, not themselves), and the lack of technological progress to be a blessing, because god forbid humanity learns how to avert a world ending meteorite event.

Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to live primitively, but it should be a choice. Further, I'm not campioning the waste consumerism generates. It just happens that progress involves lots of waste.

[freebeard]

It just happens that progress involves lots of waste.

Progress involves a lot of recycling. So long as capitalism eats it's young it shall prevail. Case in point: the hippies.

That's entirely the reason why humanity moved away from hunting and gathering to farming and agriculture; to reduce the chance of being dead due to unlucky hunting and gathering, and to produce an abundance.

ELSE; the aliens came down and persuaded the people that built Gobleki Tepe to submit to a hierarchy, work more hours per day and have their teeth and gut wrecked.

edit: And a Campion is a flower.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

Sustain what, and for how long?

The way nature works is the predator population is limited by the health of the prey population, so they are correlated. Unfortunately for a hunter/gatherer society, that means when food is scarce, people, mostly children, die.

I'm not willing to allow my children to succumb to malnutrition to play an experiment about primitive living under the guise of "sustainability". I do not expect most others to choose that either when given the option, which is why primitive cultures will continue to decline and disappear. Most people place "sustaining" themselves and their families as the top priority.

Those who view humanity as a blight on the earth may find the brutality of primitive living as a good thing (for others, not themselves), and the lack of technological progress to be a blessing, because god forbid humanity learns how to avert a world ending meteorite event.

Now, I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to live primitively, but it should be a choice. Further, I'm not campioning the waste consumerism generates. It just happens that progress involves lots of waste.

Still channeling that Julian Simon/ Bjorn Lomberg/ Michael Economides religion I see.