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Old 08-11-2019, 10:55 PM   #41 (permalink)
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The definition that Wisconsin uses (assumed to be from some model legislation somewhere) is the ultimate vague:

"A hybrid electric vehicle is one that is capable of using both electricity and gasoline, diesel fuel or alternative fuel to propel the vehicle."

Do you know of any vehicle that doesn't use electricity (that apparently mysterious, magical energy) to somehow contribute to propelling a vehicle? It will be interesting to see what actually gets penalized and how we'll be able to find out. How about the "mild hybrid" Silverado (old) and RAM (new) pickups? And all the other up-and-coming 48V mild hybrids. And what part of the definition doesn't cover running an electric motor to drive a 48V turbo that needs to be recharged with a beefy alternator (probably a mild-hybrid motor generator in most versions anyway)? It's amazing what contortions they came up with to tax the Prius gas-only fleet. And sad!

B


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Old 08-12-2019, 02:26 AM   #42 (permalink)
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The definition is among the most clear to me, as far as they generally go. Sure, you bring up good points, but the spirit of the law is that hybrids are more fuel efficient, and therefore don't pay as much in gasoline tax, and therefore don't pay their "fair share" towards infrastructure. My guess is vehicles marketed as "hybrid" will be subject to the extra registration fees.

I'd rather hybrids not be subjected to higher registration fees, but there's legitimate reasons to do so. As I've consistently said, infrastructure needs to be budgeted like any other government expenditure that is considered essential, with funding coming from regular tax collection means. Registration should cover the cost of tracking vehicle ownership and not a cent more.
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Old 08-12-2019, 09:50 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Virtually every car is (or will be) more efficient than the past. Gas-only "hybrids" (by the current definition) happen to use a motor-generator and on-board battery (no outside energy source) as the technology to enhance efficiency. That technology does a pretty good job and has a fairly high initial cost. There are still not a lot of them compared to the total fleet of vehicles. Well, gas-only turbos attempt to achieve the very same goal of enhanced efficiency. They use an exhaust-driven compressor to increase efficient use of the gas in the explosive charge. They don't cost a lot and there are already a lot of them out there with many more coming.

The impact of small-engine turbos on improved fleet efficiency and reduced collection of gas taxes far (far) outweighs the losses from gas-only hybrids. So why are legislatures (particularly Republican) targeting motor-generator/battery technology to be the loser while ignoring the impact of exhaust-driven compressor technology?

Maybe it's just ignorance. But it certainly appears to be political and very specific rather than anything having to do with common sense.

B

PS...vague is the definition of "using" and "propel"

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Old 08-12-2019, 11:20 AM   #44 (permalink)
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I'd say politics and special interests answer most of our questions of "why" with regards to particular things being taxed, or particular things being subsidized. Ignorance at best, corruption at worst.

Nonsense "solutions" to problems don't appear to be linked to any particular political party, but instead inherent to humanity.
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Old 08-12-2019, 11:31 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Our Trump clone,
Mr. Fitzgerald in 2008 was already on the record going on diatribes during rallies about
“Prius driving scumbags plugging up roads”
And if he taxed the crap out of them “maybe they would press the gas pedal”

Even Scott Walker rejected his rhetoric

.

This law is 100% about 1 man, most everyone surrounding him is just another yes man and we’ve been stuck with him forever.
The sad part is although he behaves like a puke and puts forth a traditional republican platform he fully supports and passes an awefull lot of taxes and spends them frivolously on failed policies.

Sadly his base eats it up

The elimination of the government accountability board (who ran the numbers on the actual affect of taxes) was on him.

Good reason to have term limits

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Old 08-12-2019, 12:10 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Looks like I have to take it all back! It appears that it was Tony Evers' original budget proposal that requested the change in language to impose the hybrid fee on all (including gas-only) hybrids. Don't know who was advising him, but it is truly a big disappointment. I actually wrote the gov and asked him to veto what looks like his own proposal. Ha!

For further documentation, see:

https://doa.wi.gov/budget/SBO/2019-2...e%20Budget.pdf

in the transportation section...(part 5)

We are TOAST!

B

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Old 08-12-2019, 12:48 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Didn't rmay just say the increased registration fees for hybrids was 100% due to "Mr. Fitzgerald"? You seem to be saying it was another feller named Tony Evers.
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Old 08-12-2019, 01:37 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Yup...For some reason, progressive Gov Evers decided to own the hybrid vehicle tax. Seems like an incredibly bad move to tweak the 100,000 or so gas-only Prius owners that are typically considered to be on the liberal side of things, but that appears to be what happened. Maybe it's just about the money $$. Or maybe he thought Vos and Fitzgerald would be open to compromise (they weren't/aren't). So, good luck with that!

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Old 08-12-2019, 01:53 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesight View Post
Yup...For some reason, progressive Gov Evers decided to own the hybrid vehicle tax. Seems like an incredibly bad move to tweak the 100,000 or so gas-only Prius owners that are typically considered to be on the liberal side of things, but that appears to be what happened. Maybe it's just about the money $$. Or maybe he thought Vos and Fitzgerald would be open to compromise (they weren't/aren't). So, good luck with that!

B
This is called negotiation, Evers wanted to increase road funding via gas tax
Fitzgerald said he would only increase fees
Both had to agree to pass the increase so the Hybrid tax we have gotten to hear about for a decade is now reality.

When Fitzgerald pushed this through 8 months ago Walker rejected the non plug in language.

Now we get to have fee increases back to back 8 months apart.

I had told folks that said “Evers would change everything” they were full of it for just this reason
Heck since Fitzgerald has a scapegoat you will likely see all sorts of terrible legislation coming down the pipe. (And honestly we already have, when it was all Republicans there were no abortion bills, now all of a sudden we are seeing these going through)

You have republican control at all levels of government from the town board through the assembly that provides legislation to the governor to sign.

We can’t expect a single moderate democratic governor to change anything when everyone below him including the judicial are republicans.
He’s damned if he does damned if he doesn’t

And I guarantee this fee increase will not affect road funding and next fall there will be calls for another increase.

Heck after the last batch of fee increases and mandatory insurance total registrations dropped from 8.5 million to 6.5 million which virtually eliminated any funding effect.
Alt fuel including hybrids make up under 1% of cars in Wisconsin, the numbers simply don’t work for taxes like this.

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Old 08-12-2019, 04:16 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I always wonder where people get the energy for emotions. Sure, all kinds of things bother me, but who gets angry at Prii?

It is a car.

Is it the end of the world?

What?!

Then there are the fanboys. Are Prii saving the world?

What?!

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