Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-22-2020, 12:15 PM   #21 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,807

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.65 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,057
Thanked 3,383 Times in 2,524 Posts
The H2 and especially the H3 seemed to mostly be driven by soccer moms.

__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to redpoint5 For This Useful Post:
Hersbird (10-22-2020)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-22-2020, 01:13 PM   #22 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 400
Thanks: 33
Thanked 138 Times in 102 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
The H2 and especially the H3 seemed to mostly be driven by soccer moms.
My thoughts exactly. This is going to be a prestige vehicle. Yeah, there will be a few folks that use it to its capability but mostly it'll be "Oh, look what I have."

JJ
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jjackstone For This Useful Post:
Hersbird (10-22-2020)
Old 10-22-2020, 09:19 PM   #23 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Missoula, MT
Posts: 2,250
Thanks: 211
Thanked 970 Times in 662 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
The H2 and especially the H3 seemed to mostly be driven by soccer moms.
Actually they had become a pretty good buy. The H2 had a lot built into it compared to a Tahoe and the H3 was the best Trailblazer or Envoy you could buy. Initially they were so much more money, maybe even double, but in the 20 year old car market they were just a few thousand more. I was almost settled on buying a H2 when I found the good deal on the 2500 Suburban instead. I sold that Suburban last week BTW as I've picked up a 2010 Hemi Jeep Commander to make into my hunting, camping, off road rig. Now my Touareg can stay stock and do most other duties.
__________________

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 08:11 PM   #24 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
oldtamiyaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,507

UFI - '12 Fiat 500 Twinair
Team Turbocharged!
90 day: 40.3 mpg (US)

Jeep - '05 Jeep Wrangler Renegade
90 day: 18.09 mpg (US)

R32 - '89 Nissan Skyline

STiG - '16 Renault Trafic 140dCi Energy
90 day: 30.12 mpg (US)

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 50.25 mpg (US)

Premodded - '49 Ford Freighter
90 day: 13.48 mpg (US)

F-117 - '10 Proton Arena GLSi
Pickups
Mitsubishi
90 day: 37.82 mpg (US)

Ralica - '85 Toyota Celica ST
90 day: 25.23 mpg (US)

Sx4 - '07 Suzuki Sx4
90 day: 32.21 mpg (US)

F-117 (2) - '03 Citroen Xsara VTS
90 day: 18.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 322
Thanked 444 Times in 313 Posts
Same old GM in EV clothing, LOL

GM's battery pack is nearly a foot tall, (See EE video), so the sills are level with the tops of the tyres.

The low slung CT has it's sills level with the top of the hubs. It's battery is obviously much more compact, resulting in easy entry and a lower cg. As a result, CT doesn't need side steps that add weight, drag and cost.

The Hummer's tailgate is level with the tops of the tyres FFS Forget about getting anything in there ever. This is the really dumb thing about American trucks all together. Not only is the load floor impossibly high, but when you open the tailgate you have to stand two feet back from the cargo area. CT was criticized for not allowing side loading of the tray, the HEV's tray is about 70" off the ground LOL.

Aerodynamics of, well, a Hummer. No attempt to blank of the front wheel, we all know how draggy an offroad tyre exposed the the wind is. Draggy three box styling, too steep windscreen, elephant ear mirrors...

Body of frame construction means it will be heavy.

If you're one of the few outside of Youtube to take it off road, it still has the easily scratched and dented soft skin of a regular car. Someone put a minor dent in my van's quarter panel a while back, took three weeks and US$5k to repair.

All that for for only $40k more than a CT...and if you know anything about Tesla, the only real option you can add is FSD. GM are the ones who will gouge you on 'options'.

Finally, why the 'lunar' theme? It makes absolutely no sense. Are they really just taunting Musk? You built the lunar rover 60 years ago, and now you come out with this?
__________________






  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to oldtamiyaphile For This Useful Post:
freebeard (11-01-2020)
Old 11-01-2020, 09:49 PM   #25 (permalink)
Growin a stash
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Austin TX
Posts: 668
Thanks: 372
Thanked 242 Times in 180 Posts
I think it's technically impressive and puts GM in the same ballpark as Tesla. The Hummer is a little too bloated with features I wouldn't use, though, like underbody cams and 4 wheel steering.

It's also too big for me (as is the Cybertruck). The Rivian would probably be my ev truck of choice, at the moment. I'm pretty sure the Rivian is the one that's been tested best in the real world.

The Workhorse seems pretty solid. Maybe a little short on range and not tested so well, but a good price.
__________________


2015 Nissan Leaf S, 164 mpge
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 10:31 PM   #26 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
oldtamiyaphile's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,507

UFI - '12 Fiat 500 Twinair
Team Turbocharged!
90 day: 40.3 mpg (US)

Jeep - '05 Jeep Wrangler Renegade
90 day: 18.09 mpg (US)

R32 - '89 Nissan Skyline

STiG - '16 Renault Trafic 140dCi Energy
90 day: 30.12 mpg (US)

Prius - '05 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 50.25 mpg (US)

Premodded - '49 Ford Freighter
90 day: 13.48 mpg (US)

F-117 - '10 Proton Arena GLSi
Pickups
Mitsubishi
90 day: 37.82 mpg (US)

Ralica - '85 Toyota Celica ST
90 day: 25.23 mpg (US)

Sx4 - '07 Suzuki Sx4
90 day: 32.21 mpg (US)

F-117 (2) - '03 Citroen Xsara VTS
90 day: 18.35 mpg (US)
Thanks: 322
Thanked 444 Times in 313 Posts
Sure if 'same ball park' means double the price, then yes. To be as good for double the price is really not a brag.

The Taycan is probably better than a 8 year old design Model S, again, if you don't mind paying double.

The number 1 complaint about EVs is that they're too expensive. GM moves the game on by exactly zero. What is GM's EV margin? Are they breaking even yet?

Tesla produces their EV's at double the gross margin of GM's mostly ICE vehicles, which means Tesla still has room to lower it's prices.

4WS? GM have been doing that for well over a decade. The under car cameras are a gimmick, and in off road use just won't survive. But look there's a moon boot on the floor mat.

Because of their horrendously inefficient design, pickup trucks need to be really big. If a smaller truck would do, you probably shouldn't buy a truck at all. A Honda Jazz will do anything a smaller pick up will. The only design that moves utility forward is the CT. I'd still rather have a Cybervan though, side sliding doors and rear barn doors, and space to stand up inside on sunny, hot or raining days. The way American contractors operate with a big truck then a really big trailer is an admission they bought the wrong vehicle in the first place. No one else in the world does things that way.
__________________






  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2020, 11:35 PM   #27 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 18,887
Thanks: 5,259
Thanked 6,242 Times in 4,999 Posts
Quote:
The only design that moves utility forward is the CT. I'd still rather have a Cybervan though, side sliding doors and rear barn doors, and space to stand up inside on sunny, hot or raining days.
Agreed.

Paintless dent-proof corrosion-proof construction will be a necessity with Tesla's 2 million mile battery. The Austin Gigafactory is coming along nicely.
__________________
.

Cold hearted orb that rules the night, Removes the colours from our sight, Red is grey and yellow white, But we decide which is right, And which is an illusion.
The Day Begins -- Moody Blues
_________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2020, 10:34 AM   #28 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 9,127
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,056 Times in 926 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile View Post
What is GM's EV margin? Are they breaking even yet?
AFAIK GM was the first mainstream automaker to actually profit from EVs
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2020, 12:00 PM   #29 (permalink)
EcoModding Newb
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 8,807

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 28.24 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.65 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,057
Thanked 3,383 Times in 2,524 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr View Post
AFAIK GM was the first mainstream automaker to actually profit from EVs
Probably depends on how you calculate "profit". Much of EV "profit" is selling ZEV credits.

The Chevy Bolt is currently selling for about $25k after various steep discounts, which is a loss.

If something were profitable, it would be advertised. At this point GM doesn't want to sell any more Bolts.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2020, 12:25 PM   #30 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 1,937

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)

Dieselgate - '14 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI
90 day: 38.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 127
Thanked 1,109 Times in 754 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Probably depends on how you calculate "profit". Much of EV "profit" is selling ZEV credits.

The Chevy Bolt is currently selling for about $25k after various steep discounts, which is a loss.

If something were profitable, it would be advertised. At this point GM doesn't want to sell any more Bolts.
The biggest "profit" from building an EV is avoiding the $5000 CARB fine for not building it. Of course that is list price, you can buy a credit on sale from another automaker that has too many.

Once you have enough credits to avoid the fines there is little reason to make more.

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
redpoint5 (11-03-2020)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com