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Old 03-01-2018, 02:33 PM   #11 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Well, considering other aspects, an outright ban on older Diesels may not be the most eco-conscious solution at all...

workaround ideas to discuss among friends: Why is it pointless to ban older Diesel cars like it's been proposed in Germany?

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Old 03-01-2018, 03:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The alternative to taking out the big stick, is offering a carrot.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_for_Clunkers

Similar shortcomings of course:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cash_for_Clunkers#Exotic_cars_crushed_under_the_pr ogram
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Old 03-01-2018, 09:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Sure some financial incentives for people to get rid of their old irons could be somewhat effective, but I still consider somewhat pointless to simply take them out of the road and scrap them. Well, many Diesel engines that remain quite popular in Europe, such as Renault's 1.5dCi, have much parts commonality with older naturally-aspirated and mechanically-governed IDI versions. Had it been only about pollution mitigation instead of a plain "greenwashing" propaganda stunt, I believe it would've been so much more effective to support retrofits into the "outdated" cars when they get due to an engine overhaul. Well, let's consider an Alfa Romeo 146 with a 1.9L turbodiesel, its engine is a variation of the same Pratola Serra modular engine series that originated the 1.6L and 2.0L Multijet engines currently fitted to the Jeep Renegade.
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Old 03-02-2018, 06:37 AM   #14 (permalink)
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In the US, engine "overhauls" practically never happen, at least with mainstream consumer vehicles. A vast majority of the time, the engine outlasts the rest of the car. In the north, the body rusts to pieces. In the south, the paint peels off and the transmission fails, and the cost to repair usually exceeds the cost of a used car with 100,000 fewer miles on the clock.

I imagine the same is true in Germany.

So, we could just wait until they all fall to pieces?
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Old 03-02-2018, 08:31 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Was this law specifically designed to hurt poor people? Sure, some people in poverty purchase new cars. I never understand how they make that happen, but whatever. I came home from Germany with a whole five thousand dollars to purchase a car! That was way more than I ever had before!

I ended up with my Subaru.

Hilarity did not ensue, but a lawsuit did!

Smashing an old and unreliable full-size vehicle and purchasing a new, small, reliable, and efficient car makes some sense, not that I advocate purchasing new, but how many people traded in reliable and efficient cars for full-sized ones that turned out to be unreliable?
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Old 03-02-2018, 01:50 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
...how many people traded in reliable and efficient cars for full-sized ones that turned out to be unreliable?
Perhaps my memory goes back further than yours, but I don't recall most cars (Honda & Toyota excepted) of the "clunker" era as being particularly reliable.

If the "clunker" in question was reliable and efficient, like for instance my '88 Toyota pickup, why would people trade it in? My local Craigslist is showing similar ones at around $4-5K, which is as much or more than you'd have gotten from the Cash for Clunkers program.
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Old 03-02-2018, 03:26 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have only owned Japanese cars, so I do not have first-hand knowledge of anything else, but how many people trade in cars before they pay them off? Are these cars already problematic while they are still making payments?

Why do people trade in cars when they could receive much more selling themselves? Why do people purchase used cars from dealerships when they cannot take them to their friendly neighborhood mechanic for inspection, and when they always cost more?

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Old 03-02-2018, 09:49 PM   #18 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Was this law specifically designed to hurt poor people?
It seems to have been, another way to keep them under strict control. Quite a dictatorial move...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
Why do people trade in cars when they could receive much more selling themselves? Why do people purchase used cars from dealerships when they cannot take them to their friendly neighborhood mechanic for inspection, and when they always cost more?
Well, there are always those willing to show off and pretend they're in a more comfortable situation than their neighbors...
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Old 03-02-2018, 11:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The only thing worse for the classic cars of the 1950s was the demolition derby. Here's a bullet-nose Studebaker being T-boned by a Pontiac ambulance:

http://www.curbsideclassic.com/wp-content/comment-image/147842.jpg

In lower frame is a 1958 Mercury Turnpike Cruiser! Easily $50-80K today.

The last time I went to a demolition derby I was thoroughly revolted. Everybody ganged up on the 1954 Studebaker 4-door.
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Old 03-03-2018, 01:35 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
...how many people trade in cars before they pay them off? Are these cars already problematic while they are still making payments?
I think (again, I have no firsthand knowledge, since it's been close to 30 years since I made a car payment) that most people who trade in cars do so not because there's anything wrong with the car they have, but because they want a newer model. "Clunkers" tend to be driven until they break down.

As for people buying used cars from dealers, sometimes it's just convenience: as with the few I've bought from dealers, they have a car you want and there's nothing comparable in the private market. But I think it's more often because they can put little or nothing down and make payments, something that's hard to do when you're buying from a private party.

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