Is your grill block robbing you?

[Mista Bone]

Raising the fan temp would be a bad idea IMHO, esp. for Hondas like I drive. Once the coolant temp and IAT get to a certain point, the ECM starts pulling timing and changing fuel maps, which HURTS mpg to keep the engine cool.

You only want the cooling fan to come on after sitting in traffic, never while moving, assuming AC is turned off.

[digital rules]

Tried a full grill block for the first time this weekend & was surpised that the cooling fan was coming on (204°) even with temps around 32°. (Highway cruising ~65 MPH) Pulled a few pieces out to keep temps just under 200 & mileage actually increased slightly.

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by justme1969

I think its amazing that yall would recomend over inflating tires 40% and all agree on that dangerous idea yet whittle away against a simple concept.
Should you pull back you browser it reads first of post" IS YOUR ?"
You will argue for hours the benefits of your new LED bulbs that are saving you 30% over halogen and incadescent, ok thats 15-20 watts only!
But yet you dissect every word from an educational post such as this one that may infact save 60 - 80 watts.
Never did I imply that a grill block is a bad thing I have my own complete lower blocked. I used an LED light to indicate cycle times.
You are a fool if you think a running constantly alternator is saving you fuel.
Why not instead speak of how better to set up a proper grill block with testing and cooling fundamentals.
The good news is that lots of people were educated to spite your pessimism.
I will give ya arguementative suckers this 400 watts is a bit much so to figure your own watts it is v x a = W 12 vdc. x 8 amps = 96.
unless your operating at 13.2vdc like me and only draw 6 amps then its 79watts. and that is still alot higher than your LED light bulb savings and possibly is higher than your benefit from the grill block.
Ok NOW Im done.

So now the argument is 96w vs potentially several counts of aero drag? Obviously we don't want to tax our systems unnecessarily, but you have to admit starting with an arguement saying 400w then turning around and admitting its actually 79-96 is a bit self defeating. Interesting perspective though, I think it's good to think about these things so that we don't cause damage to our vehicles.

[cbaber]

Originally Posted by justme1969

I think its amazing that yall would recomend over inflating tires 40% and all agree on that dangerous idea yet whittle away against a simple concept.
Should you pull back you browser it reads first of post" IS YOUR ?"
You will argue for hours the benefits of your new LED bulbs that are saving you 30% over halogen and incadescent, ok thats 15-20 watts only!
But yet you dissect every word from an educational post such as this one that may infact save 60 - 80 watts.
Never did I imply that a grill block is a bad thing I have my own complete lower blocked. I used an LED light to indicate cycle times.
You are a fool if you think a running constantly alternator is saving you fuel.
Why not instead speak of how better to set up a proper grill block with testing and cooling fundamentals.
The good news is that lots of people were educated to spite your pessimism.
I will give ya arguementative suckers this 400 watts is a bit much so to figure your own watts it is v x a = W 12 vdc. x 8 amps = 96.
unless your operating at 13.2vdc like me and only draw 6 amps then its 79watts. and that is still alot higher than your LED light bulb savings and possibly is higher than your benefit from the grill block.
Ok NOW Im done.

You are taking the debate way to personal. The fact is, you posted a question regarding a well known, and well documented modification for increased fuel economy. You also claimed that the fan on some models uses more energy than is saved by reduced air drag. The users here have the data. They have done the A-B-A testing. I can find dozens of posts of people reporting 3-8% MPG improvements with a grille block. The reason you got responses is because you made claims that contradict the data we already have. If you aren't prepared to defend your claims with your own data, don't expect people to just accept it. If we all just accepting everything we read without question, would that really be productive?

What you could have done is post the data that is relevant to your car, like fan voltage, the temp at which it activates, etc. Also do some A-B-A testing for your grille block to see how much benefit you are getting. Then do some more testing with a full block vs partial to see if you actually experience what you claim will happen (that the energy drain from the fan is more than energy saved by less drag). Until then everything is speculation, and is open to debate.

[Tesla]

Originally Posted by justme1969

First Never did I imply that a grill block is a bad thing!..............
.................Mad no not really just tired of the jabs when attempting to help others.
I dont care for drama, or arguements so will refrain completly from further such posts.
To read some responses you would think Id said that grill blocks were a silly stupid waste of time.

Good on you for posting, and don't let the drama bother you, people just get wound up on things, but the truth eventually seeps out
So keep posting and questionioning.

Personally I never found any significant benefit from grill blocks persay, but I do agree with the principle and as suggested by the OP if it's not done properly may well result in a loss rather than a gain.

Just like most of the other aero mods, there is no guarantee that a grill block will always provide a benefit, so getting a deeper understanding of the principles will increase probability of a gain.

IMO for a proper grille block setup the first thing to do is seal all the holes around the radiator so that the only way for air to enter engine bay is through radiator, the actual blocking of the %grille opening is the last part of the job.

For the same airflow rate through radiator, the electric fan will always be less efficient than forward movement because of additional conversion losses.

[cbaber]

Originally Posted by justme1969

First Never did I imply that a grill block is a bad thing!
And as you see I actually posed a question that was turned into a statement by post vultures.
To read some responses you would think Id said that grill blocks were a silly stupid waste of time.

I might have misunderstood your tone or message, but you made several statements and claims, you didn't just ask a question. And questions warrant answers, which is what people gave you.

Originally Posted by justme1969

... Others are eating twice the energy saved to force cool the system.
... But chances are that your fan motor/s is eating 160ea up to 600 watts of electricity and robbing your economy.
... Next time why you should probbably rip off your cute chin spoiler and install a partial belly pan instead.
... If you are not aware and you have no Idea that your fan is chewing up 400 watts while your driving down the road your alternator must provide it. add headlights on and your alternator is running near constant and yes your MPG will drop.

Nobody ever doubted that your concerns were valid (I actually told you they were valid in my first post) but you did make several claims, like our fans use up to 600 watts, and then you said 400 watts. You also claimed that the energy used by the fan is greater than the energy savings by reducing drag, which was the main debate point of this thread. I think it's worthy of debate, since you didn't provide any real data or testing to prove your statement. And the last quote above implies that because the fan was running and you didn't know about it, your MPG could actually drop. Again, no tests or data to confirm that, but you continue to be defensive when someone questions that statement.

Don't get the wrong message here, no one is trying to argue. It's a great discussion about the topic, and you brought up a valid concern that we all are trying to figure out.

Originally Posted by justme1969

...Second Why not instead speak of how better to set up a proper grill block with testing and cooling fundamentals if your posting in on this thread. Several did and im sure it helped many others.

Thats what most of the posts did. For example I mentioned that people should constantly monitor coolant temperature with an accurate gauge instead of relying on the stock dash gauge because it is not accurate.

[Cobb]

At the truck shop I use to work at we would go to well over 100 psi for tires on trucks that handled aerial equipment.

For those eco races many insight owners go between 80-120 psi in their tires.

Originally Posted by justme1969

I think its amazing that yall would recomend over inflating tires 40%

[user removed]

Today I rode to Sandston, near the Richmond airport to get a bunch of parts for my 3 wheeler project. Ambient temps were 34-38 F. I used the Interstate (64) on the trip to the shop, 49.7 MPG indicated. On the way back I got on route 60 and went slower with more neutral (engine on) coasting. Topped off the tank for $3.199 per gallon plus 3% for using AMex card. From there home my indicated mileage, with one stop for lunch with the wife, was 52 MPG. My grille block is not going anywhere and it seems fine in ambient temps approaching 70 F. Highway EPA is 38 MPG. Those are very close to summertime
mileage for me.

regards
Mech

[Cobb]

Old Mechanic, do you ever travel on 288? Myself and a few others have tried that route and it seems to be up hill in both directions. The other routes seem fine that go through and surround Richmond, 64, 95, 195, 295.

[user removed]

Turn east on Midlothian from 288. My youngest stepdaughter lives about a mile from that exit. I usually take 5 west, then 295 south to 10, then 95 north to 288, exit on Midlothian to get to her house. I lose MPG slightly on 288 but there are some nice downhill coasting opportunities, mainly due to speed and I don't like to jam people up behind me.

regards
Mech