Gas-Electric propulsion system for 3.5 ton conversion van

[Ecky]

As oldtamiyaphile has said, the vast majority of auto transmissions are destroyed when rolling in neutral at high speeds because they require the input shaft to be turning to pump lubricant. You're likely to be burning somewhere in the range of a gallon of gasoline every 2 hours just keeping the V8 idling to prevent the auto transmission from grenading. I understand that swapping it out the transmission is relatively expensive and involved, but the cost of not swapping it out is probably even higher.

In terms of cost effective improvement:

Mandatory) For any vehicle, low rolling resistance tires generally pay for themselves in fuel savings, even if they cost more up-front. Aero-mods are cheap-to-free, and show returns, especially in vehicles that are aerodynamically poor to begin with.

Best) Return and/or rebuild your current engine and drivetrain to make it more efficient. Double your mileage for very little cost.

Better) Change vehicles to something that already has a more efficient drivetrain, or one that doesn't need work to get it running efficiently. An old diesel van? A Mercedes diesel with a trailer? An RV? Even an old school bus? Get something with a manual transmission, since they last longer and are cheaper to work on. I'm leery of high-mile automatics.

Good) Swap in a better drivetrain. I don't know older American vehicles as well as newer imports, but a you may have diesel options that are nearly drop-in, requiring little to no fabrication. A tall manual transmission would be a tremendous improvement. A drivetrain swap has the chance of giving you even better economy than upgrading what you have, but the total cost involved is higher, and the projected break-even point will be farther out. The more exotic the change (e.g. diesel-electric), the more it's going to cost.


Food for thought: Imports and even hybrids are more mass-produced today American vehicles, and parts are still being made. If a motor mount goes out on my (50 mile per gallon+) Civic, would you believe that it would only cost me $8 for a replacement? A belt tensioner is less than $20, tie rod ends are $6. A head gasket is $24 (for a hybrid engine, no less!), and a complete brand-new gasket set for the entire engine is little more than $80.

Honda (just as an example, because I know them) gasoline engines are more reliable than older American ones, and will almost always run over 200,000 miles with little to no maintenance. Most engines will run over 300,000 miles. If you take care of it, you might even get 4-500,000 miles without a rebuild on a modern imported engine. I don't know how many miles your van's worn-out V8 has, but I'm betting that not too many American gasoline engines from that time period generally make it to 250,000 without major work.

And if you're really concerned about EMP, buy a spare computer from eBay and keep it in a shielded box. If an EMP comes, take the computer out of the box and plug it in.

~

What is best for you is really going to depend on how much you drive. As someone who puts over 40,000 miles on my cars each year, changing over to my Honda hybrid from my F150 paid for the entire car plus insurance, registration and maintenance in just 4 months, in fuel savings alone. If you don't drive very much, cheap improvements on your existing vehicle are likely to have a better return.

[oil pan 4]

2bbl carbs only stick to 2 air fuel ratio ranges. You will never be able to tune one for lean cruise and wide open throttle that doesn't cause bad preiginition and burned exhaust valves.
2bbl carbs are typically tuned to run rich in the mid range so they don't lean out too much at full throttle.
Which is exactly what you don't want.
As far as I can tell the only reason people use them is because they are cheaper or out of ignorance.
All holley race carbs are fuel dumps. Good fuel economy was never a design parameter.

A new Edelbrock 650 is around $360. Air fuel ratio meters are usually under $200. The Edelbrock advanced tuning kit was around $80.
Then you will need some kind of adapter or a different intake manifold so you can attach the carb to the engine.
You could likely double your fuel milage with just that.

Unless you get the engine running right there is no chance you will be able to double or triple the MPGs.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

If you were that much concerned about an EMP you'd rather look at fitting an old Mercedes-Benz turbodiesel (either the 617 or the 603) in your rig.

[freebeard]

People are starting to notice 'EMP', but no takers on 'underunity' yet.

Wood pellets==>steam.

[Hersbird]

Any Dodge over a 1968 will be taken out by an emp anyway. You need points, condensor, ballast resistor and old style voltage regulator. 1968 was a great year.

[oldtamiyaphile]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

Any Dodge over a 1968 will be taken out by an emp anyway. You need points, condensor, ballast resistor and old style voltage regulator. 1968 was a great year.

I think that depends on how powerful the EMP strike is. Certain circuits are going to be more sensitive than others.

Seems like the simple solution would be to add a hood and fenderwall blanket with RF shielding mesh behind it. Keep your engine warm and no EMP issues.

[oil pan 4]

Lightning generates an EMP that lasts longer than the initial strike and it usually does not effect vehicles.
Any vehicle not running with its body connected to an earth ground would likely be unaffected.

I would not worry about the old solid state distributors, their electronics are inside the distributor and constantly bathed in ionization, emf and rfi and they run a 100,000 miles no problem.

[freebeard]

EMP depends on the gross dimensions of the object, powerlines (and anything attached to them) are most vulnerable. On the other end of the scale, transistors are more vulnerable than vacuum tubes.

A gas engine with a magneto is probably equivalent to a diesel.

Faraday cages can pass air, but openings or hatches need grounding contacts along the edges so they seal electrically.

[elhigh]

"plus they'll be fried when the EMP happens."

"When," not "if?" You're losing me. At this point I'm beginning to fear you may be a nut. The mention of "underunity" engines makes me fear even more that you may be a nut, because it suggests you might hold out belief that there can be such a thing as "overunity" engines.

It ain't so. Not with physics as we know it.

You came with a practical problem and proposed a couple of wildly impractical solutions. Others - some with experience almost directly in line with your paradigm - proposed highly practical solutions with reasonably achievable goals.

A different carb would give you a level of tunability you do not currently have. You could come close to a lean burn operating regime, at which point your vehicle would cruise with previously unheard of economy. These carbs are not hard to find.

A TBI or MPFI setup would give you a much, much more reliable setup than the current carb, which by your own admission is not getting the job done. Another poster even suggested - and I thought this was sheer genius - that you retain a carb as the throttle for your injection setup. This would provide you with a side-of-the-road conversion capacity in the event of an EMP.

Another poster pointed out that your electronic ignition is likely just as vulnerable to EMP as the ECU of an injection system, so worrying about EMP without installing a points system is, ha-ha, pointless.

You have mentioned your budget more than once when denying the feasibility of a different vehicle, even as you return to the idea of making a cobbled-together hybrid system or, God help us, wood gas system. Another poster already pointed out, and let me restate, that the greatest return on any investment would be to optimize the vehicle you already have. You won't be adding equipment to it, you will be eliminating faults.

You have pointed out that reliability is important to you, even while switching back and forth on your possible alternative fuel ideas. I fear that you may not have the expertise or perseverance to design and implement an alternative system that is as reliable even as the engine you now have.

The 318 is like the Small Block Chevy of Chrysler Corporation. It'll run poorly but reliably longer than some engines run at all. Invest a little money in it and you will enjoy a solid boost in power, a big jump in driving range, and an engine that will last longer and run better. You are blinded to the possibilities of what is already in front of you because you are too heavily fixated on the possibilities of what could be. You will enjoy a much, much better result if you focus your imagination and effort on making the very best of what you have.

Yes, it's mundane. It's even kind of boring. But it won't be anywhere near as frustrating.

Good luck to you. I'm not going to comment on this thread again, because I'm afraid it's headed down the Unicorn hole.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by freebeard

A gas engine with a magneto is probably equivalent to a diesel.

Not so sure about it, but anyway, finding a car with a magneto nowadays is not so easy.